The "extreme male brain" theory of autism - accurate?

As someone who is both male and on the spectrum, I find the extreme male brain theory interesting.

Simon-Baron Cohen’s “male brain theory” is based on the concept that men are adept at understanding systems, while women are better at empathy for other people - and autistic people have an extremely good understanding of systems and a lack of empathy, making them “extremely masculine”, though not necessarily “macho” (which has a more negative connotation and would describe most autistic people very poorly, IMO). Personally, I’m neither especially empathetic (though I try to be nice and I do care about others) nor am I particularly good at understanding systems.

Until recently, I never considered a connection between autism and gender. True, most people diagnosed with autism are male, but there are plenty of autistic women too, and it seems like boys with autism are more likely to be diagnosed for various reasons, such as not “masking” the symptoms as well (I imagine peer pressure from other girls might be why autistic girls learn to hide better), and the perception that autism is a “boy’s condition” making it likely many autistic females are diagnosed with say, borderline personality disorder instead.

Plus, autistic boys are apparently more likely to have unusual obsessions, such as calendars or trains, while autistic girls tend to be into the same things “normal” girls are into, such as books and animals. The former might be more concerning to parents than the latter, making a diagnosis more likely.

One recent study has given a good deal of evidence to the male brain theory, though it only involved about 200 people and seems to have been based mostly on cortical thickness, which is just one “gendered” element of brain structure.

Apparently females with autism are 3 times more likely than “neurotypical” females to have masculine brains, while males with autism are not significantly more likely to have more masculine brains than regular males.

While this sounds like solid proof of the male brain theory, there are some caveats I’d make before hailing it as that. First of all, they excluded people with a history of psychiatric disorders or taking meds, which excludes a huge portion of the autistic population. This throws the entire study into question, since it’s only an analysis of autistic people who are the least affected by autism.

Second, the sample only included high-functioning autistic people, which is an issue because the observed gender ratio of high-functioning autistics is considerably more male-biased than the observed ratio of lower-functioning autistics. Which is, I’m guessing, because high-functioning female autistics often seem “normal” enough to be not diagnosed.

Lastly, who’s to say the reason why most of the autistic brains in the study were masculinized isn’t because high functioning autism in a feminine brain is often mistaken for something else?

So what do you think? Do you associate being autistic with being manly?

As someone who works with persons with autism I do believe there is something in males not so common in females. There is more autism in males but when it occurs in females it trends to be harsher. I heard it has something to do with the XX and XY chromosomes.

What is the ratio of diagnosed males to diagnosed females? Also, is there evidence suggesting that females with autism often go undiagnosed?

It’s striking that the conclusion here is that the “male” brain is purely more autistic. If the metrics they use for “male” vs “female” brains are all purely physical, it could be a disingenuous premise. What goes on inside the brain is probably much more important and that area has a ton of grey matter, so to speak.

I actually came to that conclusion on my own. I mean, you could rename those gender-relations books <Autistics Are From Mars And Neurotypicals Are From Venus and they’d hardly have to change anything. Glad to know I’m not the only one to see this.

Cite: personal experience as a gender-atypical Aspie woman.

I think the “autistic people have low empathy” thing is a tad bit overblown, and apparently so do some researchers.

As does this Aspie who volunteers with Autistic people. People on the spectrum may not always immediately comprehend what’s happening in a situation, but when they do, I don’t notice (nor do I experience) any real lack of empathy. That there is often a “processing period” is possibly what leads people to read that as “lack of empathy.”

I’m 47 and I was recently diagnosed but I’ve known for some time I had issues. I have a 12 year old autistic daughter and from what I feel is genderless, asexual, and neutral. When I think of us I don’t really think male. I think simplified. Is that a weird thing to think? We’re not feminine or masculine.The way we dress, the way we talk and behave, it’s just simplified.

We don’t lack empathy at all. We just have a hard time understanding sometimes, and an even harder time expressing what we’re feeling. That makes me uncomfortable so I draw in instead of reaching out.

I’ve got a brain and it is EX-TREEEME!!!

[sub]I can find my own way out, sir.[/sub]

I have long suspected that I may fall into an autistic spectrum. Mine is mostly reflected in obsessions with statistics and maps when I was younger and as an adult obsessing over efficiency mostly in machinery but procedures as well. I think I have always felt empathy to a strong degree but I tend to try and break it down into a mechanical reason. I have been with far more than my share of women in my life but have never experienced falling in love. I did grow to love my first wife but not in the usual possessive sense, as long as she was fine I was fine.

Father of a daughter on the autism spectrum. We are a part of a very large community of Chinese Families with kids on the spectrum. I know probably 20-30 kids on the spectrum quite well, and have interacted with well over 100.

Casual internet search reveals one study that is widely cited for this masking. Part of it depends on how one defines “autism”. It is a spectrum after all.

I think the “autistic people have low empathy” thing is a complete crock. At least those that are functioning enough to be able to interact with people, and these include 100% non-verbal and largely non-communicating kids.

This would lead me to suspect with a very high degree of certainty that you are not on the spectrum. Let me ask you this, have you ever had a friend?

If you were to be diagnosed on the spectrum, it would be as extremely high functioning since you obviously have been able to have successful relationships, get and stay married, assume you have a professional job and college level education, know how to drive, have communication skills, etc etc. Do you stem?

you sound much more to me like an “engineering type” or even an “engineering geek” rather than someone on the spectrum. I don’t mean to pick on you or anything, but most self diagnosed people get it wrong.

Interestingly enough, silicon valley and high tech companies like Microsoft (where I worked for 14 years) have a much higher incidence of diagnosed autism spectrum than the general population. It may be extremely educated parents or other factor. It has been postulated that you take a couple that are both quants or engineering types and have kids, then their kids reinforce those autistic-like behavior and may then be diagosible.

Bill Gates has never publicly admitted to being on the spectrum. If you meet him in real life, it’s pretty obvious he has something going on. Back in the older days, he would probably be considered an Aspie (Aspergers and Autism spectrum designations merged maybe 5-10 years ago to be Autism Spectrum). I was part of the autism community at Microsoft for many years. Oddly enough, there was a “Autism Support Group” that ended up splitting into two because one group was for Parents with kids on the spectrum, and another group was “spectrum folks working at Microsoft.” My neighbor across the street was part of both groups.

[quote=“China_Guy, post:11, topic:794333”]

This would lead me to suspect with a very high degree of certainty that you are not on the spectrum. Let me ask you this, have you ever had a friend?

Yes plenty of casual friends, maybe 1 semi close friend. I have often been considered odd because of questions I ask, not necessarily personal. By the age of about 14 I had figured out pretty well how to get along in society but never really was comfortable. I don’t think I would fit a diagnosis but more like on the fringe of the spectrum.

[quote=“HoneyBadgerDC, post:12, topic:794333”]

Given this reply, with all due respect, don’t waste your money on a diagnosis. :smiley:

Fun fact ladies and gents, the Simon Baron-Cohen of the OP is the brother of Borat and Ali-G comedian, Sasha Baron-Cohen (that fact is pretty widely known in the UK but perhaps not in the USA)

I agree about autistic people lacking empathy being crap. I was just saying what Baron-Cohen’s theory is.

I think his theory is harmful to people with autism, though I don’t think he intends to be that way.

Actually, his cousin.

d’oh, of course.

I’m not sure I’ve read Cohen’s book, but every other argument I’ve seen along these lines has been 100% gold-plated BS once you look at their “proof”, so I am skeptical.

One biological factor that men do have that is thought to be part of the reason they are more likely to have autism or other neurodevelopmental issues, is that they are haploid for almost all of the X chromosome, which is one of the biggest chromosomes in humans and has a lot of brain-relevant genes. Thus, if they inherit a mutation in an X-linked gene, they don’t have a backup copy to rely on and thus are more likely to exhibit a phenotype.

Another suspected factor in the autism sex imbalance is purely cultural: girls get significantly more socialization than boys do, and particularly more direct verbal interaction with adults during infancy. If they aren’t very severely affected in the first place, this might ameliorate certain symptoms enough to put them out of the “clinically diagnosible” category.

Good point. Another thing is like I said in another thread, women and girls seem less tolerant of “weirdness” in people, even if they are broadly more tolerant of other cultures. I suspect an autistic girl would be more pressured by her female peers to “act normal” than an autistic boy would get from his male peers (in my experience as someone on the spectrum, I was just ignored instead).