The Eye of Sauron

Cafe Society
1

Ok, we know that Sauron was humaniod in form during the War of the Ring. Tolkien tells us that Sauron’s shape was “terrible”…

…and we know Gollum had seen the Dark Lord himself, reporting to Frodo and Sam that “He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand, but they are enough.”

We know that The Eye of Sauron is a metaphor used by the people of M.E. to describe Sauron’s sleepless vigilance; He watches everything, all the time.

We know that Frodo had a vision of a lidless eye in the Mirror of Galadriel. This vision of the Eye appeared rimmed with fire, glazed like a cat’s eye, and its pupil was a slit that “opened on a pit, a window into nothing.”

There are several mysterious scenes in LotR, where Frodo sees strange things coming from the Dark Tower. When Frodo is sitting upon the Hill of the Eye, he narrowly misses the “gaze” of the dark tower, and later while climbing Mount Doom, he can see a red beam of light coming from the topmost tower of Barad-dur, supposedly watching the events transpiring before the gates of Mordor.

Now, based on these facts, I am confused regarding Peter Jackson’s interpretation of the Eye of Sauron in the LotR movies. We see several scenes of a giant, lidless eye straddling the spires of Barad-dur. Based on these scenes, is he implying that Sauron changes his form to a giant eye, in order to survey the country side, so to speak? Is he expanding on the visions Frodo has of the Eye? If so, he is taking a lot of liberties here. The only vision Frodo has of the Eye is in the Mirror of Galadriel scene. In the movies, we see this Eye before, during, and after this scene. Or is this simply a visual representation of the Eye of Sauron metaphor?

I’m so confused! :confused:

I should add that I absolutely love the LotR movies! Peter Jackson and his crew did an unbelievable job in bringing this book to the big screen.

Thanks

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My interpretation of the events within the movies was that

(a) Sauron had re-manifested in some form, possibly not physical enough to smack people around like he did in FOTR flashbacks, but something that can be recognized as him sans ring finger.

(b) He had magical psychic mindreading/vision powers which allowed him to peer into peoples’ souls; the farther away they were, the weaker it was, unless they opened up to him by putting on the ring, peering into the mirror, standing on the altar at the end of FOTR, looking into/touching the palantir, etc.

© For short range use he had built an amplifier for this power into the top of his tower so he had the Mordor Eye o’ Flaming Death peering around looking for stuff. Say, how boring must that be? “Hmm… orcs… orcs… pits of flame… orcs… fumes… orcs… orcs…” The one time there’s something to see that’s out of the ordinary, and he just misses seeing the hobbits. How screwed up is that?

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Peter Jackson wasn’t the first to interpret the Eye that literally. The same basic idea, with the Eye moving around looking like a freaking spotlight, was used in the animated Return of the King.

I think most of Sauron’s problems can be traced to not getting the red out.

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Thanks Ethilrist

Yes, but whether it’s through the Palantir, the Mirror, or the Ring, why see the Eye? There is no Eye! Why not see the humanoid form of Sauron?

This is what I am so confused about.

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Err a, scratch the part about the Mirror! :wally Yes, Frodo would see a vision of the Eye in the Mirror, as told in the book, but not through the Ring.

Damn, now I am confusing myself!

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Ethilrist, © has me snickering out loud.

Chunky Burn: when Pippin relates what he saw in the Palantir (in the book), he doesn’t mention an Eye. He just says he saw the tower, and things flying around it … “and then he came.” Which I picture as a humanoid appearance. And, IIRC, that’s the only description we get of how Sauron appears in a Palantir (and, btw, the only lines of dialog Sauron has).

I think PJ blew it by showing Sauron as a flaming eyeball. Too literal, and it made the destruction of Barad-Dur look silly. I would’ve done it as in the book – man-shaped cloud, dissipating in the wind.

(This is not to say that I don’t worship these films and thank god every day for Peter Jackson.)

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jsc1953

The name is Bum, Chunky Bum, not Chunky Burn! :wink:

So you interpreted the Eye as a literal, physical manifestation of Sauron’s form as well. Interesting.

Anyone else?

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Reluctantly you enter a vast, dimly lit cavern, filled with stalagtites. At one end is a vast obsidian throne designed by H. R. Giger. Standing before the throne is a tall, black cloaked figure. As you approach you notice that one of his hands is black and nearly fleshless as if burnt by a terrible fire. The hand has four fingers. The figure turns towards you. His face is hidden by the deep black shadows cast by the hood. Slowly he looks up, a giant flaming red eye floats in the center of the inky darkness. His gaze peirces your soul. You go insane and are dragged screaming form the room.

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jsc1953

I’m sorry, I forgot to add something.

When I mentioned the Palantir and visions of the Eye of Sauron, I was referring to the movie(s), not the book. IIRC, Pippin sees the Eye, not a humanoid Sauron form, when he gazes into the Palantir.

Again I ask, no, beg, Why does P.J. show scenes of a giant, lidless, eye on top of Barad-dur? For the love of Eru, WHY??
furryman

Whoa, where, what, why? I don’t understand. :confused: Good writing though!

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I’m perfectly willing to accept an Eye appearing in the Palantir, rather than Sauron’s physical form (whatever that may be, and if he even has one at the time). The Palantir does not work like a TV camera. It’s primarily a device for linking minds, not light rays. So, like the Mirror or the Seat of Seeing, it would present a vision of Sauron’s essence, not his form.

I also wasn’t too fond of Jackson’s portrayal of the Eye perched in a Jacob’s Ladder atop Barad-Dur, but on the other hand, I do recognize that he was going in under a handicap, in that in a movie, you have to show something. In a book, you can get away with things like “and then he showed up” (occasionally, at least), but in a movie, that’s not an option.

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Sorry, CB – bad resolution on my monitor. The “m” looks like “rn”.

And actually, just the opposite: Sauron has a physical body (contrary to Saruman’s line in the movie FOTR); the Eye is merely how Sauron appears in the minds of others. It shouldn’t be the literal, physical manifestation of Sauron, and PJ blew it by making it so.

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Sorry jsc1953, I wasn’t quite clear, again.

When I said "…you interpreted the Eye as a literal, physical manifestation of Sauron’s form ", I meant it in the context of the movie (i.e.- this was the impression the viewer was to get when watching the movie).

Wheeeeeeeeee, isn’t this fun! :dubious:

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OK, CB – now that we’re on the same page: yes, I think that was Peter Jackson’s intent. He has Saruman say “he’s not yet able to take physical form”, and therefore the flaming eyeball on top of Barad-Dur was Sauron. Not a neon sign saying “Sauron lives here”, but Sauron himself. Or at least, the closest he could get to something physical.

Like I said, I would’ve made other choices.

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Roger that jsc1953. Thanks for the input.

I hate to even ask this at this point, but wouldn’t a giant, lidless eye be considered a “physical form”? It’s physical, in nature, and has a distinct form, does it not?

[ducks, and runs for cover]

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I disagree – don’t think the Eye atop the Dark Tower is Sauron himself. I thought of it as some sort of magical distance-viewing Eye perched atop the Baradur, and embodiment of the concept that Sauron has magical far-seeing power.

It can’t be Sauron himself – what, you think Sauron would spend all his time sitting out there in the bad weather on top of his tower? He has to give orders to troops, pull together armies, make war plans, torture prisoners, lower taxes for the wealthy, etc. etc and do all the things that evil emperors do.

The books talk about how Sauron can see everywhere, and Frodo has the vision of the eye rimmed with fire. Jackson chose to combine those two concepts, so the giant Eye is like a TV camera with telescopic lenses beyond belief, and also one that can detect some magic.

Thus, Frodo sees the Eye (and the Eye might possibly see him) whenever he puts the ring on. It’s a visual way of saying that Sauron becomes aware of him. And it’s a much more dramatic, scarey, colourful way of showing that.

The alternative would be that when Frodo puts on the ring, the camera cuts to a horrible nasty figure on a dark throne, suddenly turning around and saying, “I sense something…”. That would (a) be less interesting visually and (b) take more screen time and © ruin Tolkien’s concept that the reader never encounters Sauron, and (d) become kinda boring the fourth or fifth time. A flash of the red eye, however, does not become boring, it’s still unnerving, and it’s only a few frames, so very fast.

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See, I think this was another “damned if you do” situation for Peter Jackson. The simple fact of the matter is a book can say things like “sinister figure” and expect readers to fill in whatever sort of figure terrifies them the most (hell, maybe someone imagined Sauron as a giant clown). But in a movie, unless you have the screentime to truly make a figure menacing, you’re probably just going to come off as stereotypical and faintly ridiculous trying to make a figure everyone in the audience can find intimidating and dark.

Far better to give us a glimpse of what he might have been like at the beginning of FOTR and then withdraw him to a more ethereal dark presence embodied by an eye and a ring. Are there better solutions? Probably. Better solutions in the constraints Jackson must have been facing? Well that’s a far better question.

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Well that’s not the impression I got from the movies. The movies seem to imply that Sauron “can not yet take a physical form”, and that the Eye atop Barad-dur is Sauron. But it’s confusing to say the least. Even more so for people who have not read the books.

I found an interesting Eye of Sauron page on Wikipedia.

…interviews with Jackson imply that the difference is based on an honest (and understandable) misreading of Tolkien’s intent.

:eek:

Wha? Can anyone confirm this?

I’m not trying to bash P.J. into the ground or anything. I’m just very perplexed by the whole thing.

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And it’s certainly ring-finger-less.

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Don’t read too much into the use of the eye by PJ. After all, JRRT used it to represent Sauron thruout the book. The “lidless eye”, the “great eye”, it was pained onto helms that the orcs used. It even adorned the hardcover volumes of the LOTR published in the 60’s and 70’s and later.

It was an easy icon with nifty special effect possibilities, quickly recognized by all of fandom to represent the “Great Lord”.

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I most certainly did not sit my happy butt up on the spires of Barad-Dur and spend all my time just looking around. I had a wedding to plan, a princess to murder, Guilder to frame for it … I was swamped. Besides, if I’d spent all that time out in the elements, I’d’ve gotten sick. If you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything.

Seriously, when Frodo climbs to the top of the hill at the end of FOTR (the book), he senses the gaze of Sauron. He takes the Ring off and rolls off the seat just in time, and he literally feels the power of Sauron’s Eye as it juuuuust passes over him.

Given that to work from, I don’t have a problem with a Flaming Eye situated on top of Barad-Dur. I don’t see it as a literal, physical Eye – more like a spell-produced way of looking around. It has form, but no substance. It functions, but it’s not really there. Sorta like American Idol.