The eye of the needle

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
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“Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle’s Eye…Although there in no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed.” The Hard Sayings of Jesus, F.F. Bruce; pg. 181

“Zonderzon’s Pictorial Bible Dictionary has a picture of a large city gate with a small door in it about four geet high and makes the following claim in the caption: The Jaffa Gate in the wall of Jerusalem, showing the ‘Needles Eye.’ Small doors such as this were common features of the gates of ancient cities; humans could pass through fairly easily, but large animals. such as camels, had to be unloaded and then had to kneel to get through, even then with difficulty.”

The weights and sins-burdens that need to be rolled onto the Lord Jesus Christ, and the kneeling-those that humble themselves shall be exalted.

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Welcome! The columns are

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichma2.html

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If you’re going to c&p from Wikipedia , please make sure you do so thoroughly. The sentence immediately before your citation reads:

A caption in one Zondervan book does not really convince me, I’m afraid. Got anything else?
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I suspect this little door exists only in the imaginations of Christians who fervently wish it to be so. A cursory google search for [“Needle’s Eye” “Jaffa Gate” Jerusalem] turns up a smattering of Christian fundamentalist sites that pass on this information as if it were gospel (so to speak), attributed only to ‘Zonderzon’s Pictorial Bible Dictionary’. I find it hard to believe that such a feature has not been documented by anyone else at any time and posted on the internet. Lord knows every other supposed artifact of Jesus has.

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I don’t have a copy, unfortunately, or else I’d check to see if there are any references to the caption.

Don’t we have a few Israeli dopers around? Anyone from Jerusalem?
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I did have something else, but you didn’t comment on it. Why did Jesus choose a camel and a needle? The camel has to unburden itself to get into the city-the rich young ruler wanted to enter the Kingdom of God (“let us lay aside every weight and the weights and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run…” Heb. 12:1. The man responded to the Lord, “all these have I kept from my youth up.” Luke 18:21-“whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.” Matthew 25:12. He had asked, “Good Master, what shall I DO to inherit eternal life?” Luke 18:18. Jesus plainly told him what to do, LAY ASIDE, then HUMBLE yourself.

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Do you believe any of those. I doesn’t really matter, does it, if it is true. And if Jesus’ statement is TRUE, do you need to see to believe, or does the word of God make you sad too?

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How you interpret your book is up to you. If the literal camel interpretation is important to you, go for it. I’m happy to see it as allegory, especially since the Christ spent a lot of time on allegory, but whatever floats your boat.

But if you’re interested in convincing me that the Christ was referring to a specific actual gate in Jerusalem, you’ll need to provide some actual evidence of its existence.
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I am not the Christian who cannot take the words of Jesus at face value, but must invent tales to support the scripture. Why do they find it necessary to believe there is a little door in Jerusalem? Is it not enough that Jesus teaches we must not store up treasures on Earth?

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Thanks Susan. I actually found the first one you mentioned on a Yahoo! search today. Last night in our weekly bible study we had that verse and I was seaching for what others thought.

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It doesn’t matter what I say, but what the Lord said. Why did He use the camel and why a needle? It has a reason for using those particular words, and there is a more important spiritual meaning to it that just the illustration.

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To store up treasures on earth is one part, but why the needle?

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Camels, big; needles, small.

He could have said, “It is easier to play an 8-track tape on an iPod than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God,” but the people of the time probably related to camels and needles better. For the same reason, he compared faith to a mustard seed; people knew how small that was. It has no significance beyond that, nor does it need any.

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What about “which a man took, and cast into his garden’ and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.” Luke 13:19? The smallest of herbs grows into a tree-larger than nature, and the fowls of the air-Satan’s demons lodge in the braches of it-make a home there-where they shouldn’t be-the leaven that has come into the church through their false doctrines.

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I think the point that Jesus was making are that there are a lot of people like the rich young man who think that they’re perfect and that they’re guaranteed a place in Heaven. Jesus was basically telling the man that everyone is a sinner and we can always find a way to live a better life - and also that everyone is equal in the eyes of God and shouldn’t be arrogant about themselves.

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The whuh? Isn’t there something in the Bible about not adding your own bits to it?

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Blessedforeverandever, is there some sort of point you’re attempting to make?

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Do you reckon?

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Some scholars have suggested that “camel” is a misreading for “rope”. I admit that “easier to put a rope through the eye of a needle” seems more reasonable, but I’m not sure how trustworthy the claim of a misreading is. Apparently the Babylonian Talmud has a saying about an elephant passing through the eye of a needlwe. See Eye of a needle - Wikipedia

I always say that “It’s easier to pass a needle through the Eye of a Camel…” myself.

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Jesus spoke in parables. "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in this field? from whence then hath it tares? He saith unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay: lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. John 13:24-30. John 13:34-43 continues, “All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them; that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us this parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man: the field is the world: the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one: the enemy that sowed them is the devil: the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathereed and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of the world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of thier Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

When Jesus told Peter, "if I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:22-23.

In John 21:20 it talks about "the disciple whom Jesus loved, following; which also leaned on his breast at supper and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

John 13:23 says, "Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.

What is the name of that disciple? He tells us himself in John 21:24, “This is the disciple which testifieth of these things…”