Of course it’s a possibility. However, when she gets more dates and has more friends than me, yet I am the petite one, I doubt that it’s because of her self-image issues. That and the fact that she and I are so overwhlemingly honest with each other about ourselves. She admits to having her moments, of crying herself to sleep at night, but overall this is a moot issue for her. Instead of letting herself be affected by what the media/hollywood/fasion mags say about her image, she has opted to concentrate more on her education & sociability. She’s much better off than most attractive, popular people I know.
This thread could go in so many different directions!
“I can never give a ‘yes’ of a ‘no.’ I don’t believe everything in life can be settled by a monosyllable” Betty Smith
ENFP Prayer: Dear God, please help me keep my mind on one - oh look a bird! - thing at a time
I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Two weeks, four days, 18 hours, 46 minutes and 4 seconds.
751 cigarettes not smoked, saving $93.91.
Life saved: 2 days, 14 hours, 35 minutes.
The debate, Brian, is about making body image such an issue in the first place. The problem is that we’ve got a culture that seems to make many (most?) women, and the vast majority of young girls (and, increasingly, boys too), feel bad about their weight. Not their physical fitness, even. Just their weight.
Even acknowledging that it’s unhealthy to be seriously overweight, do you think for a minute that piling all this extra emotional freight on the issue helps an overweight woman lose weight? Not a chance. It just means she never gets a rest from feeling rotten about her weight, which in turn means that she never gets the chance to deal with it on her own time, to find a time when she’s psychologically rested and ready to deal with her weight problem. She’s always dealing with it emotionally, because our culture won’t let her forget for five minutes that she ought to be thin.
When I was teaching at an evangelical Christian college, it got really hard being a somewhat freethinking Christian in such an environment; I always felt criticized, outnumbered, on the wrong side of things. It was constantly tiring and wearing, to be in that situation. I imagine that that’s at least somewhat analogous to what it’s like, being an overweight woman in America. But at least I could leave that job and that area, which I ultimately did. You’ve got to move a lot further to find somewhere where it’s not a big deal for a woman to be on the heavy side.
No, QuickSilver, the Hollywood stars aren’t doing anyone any favors here. They’re not only making life harder for women who are genuinely overweight - they’re making women and girls who are the right weight feel disgusted with their bodies. You were saying:
Exactly. It seems that all our thin-and-beautiful popular culture does is make people feel shitty about their bodies for a host of reasons. Weight’s the biggest one, but there are a host of others. Why?? Can this possibly be a good idea? There are millions of different ways a woman can look beautiful, but somehow our popular culture takes one particular extreme and says, “this is the only way to look beautiful.” It’s an abomination.
I’m 17, last time I checked I weighed 240, and I’m 5’4. Is it had going through High School like this? It was at first, but I’ve become accustomed to who I am, and I see my beauty before I see my fat.
Am I big lazy pig? Lazy, slightly. But often times I’m too busy with school etc to be lazy. Also I have a lot of places to be and I don’t have a car right now. So I walk. A lot. Do I inhale ice cream and hohos? I don’t like sweet treats/junk food as a general rule. My one vice is Coca Cola, and I tried to give it up, but I couldn’t. I drink one can a day. Have I gone on diets? Yes, everything I could think of. I didn’t lose a pound, I didn’t gain, but I didn’t lose.
My point for all this personal info? I think that people have a very unfair stereotypical idea of fat people and what they do and don’t do. I even eat LESS then all my friends, and I still can’t shed the weight.
I don’t think it should be a big issue. I personally think the women who look like they have starved themselves for weeks is pretty disgusting. I don’t think protraying that as a healthy image is a good thing. Somebody could be a HEALTHY 140 lbs, and decide to loose 20-35 pounds or more, and completely ruin their health. Why is thin beautiful? My BF says he personally perfer something he can hold on to, a girl he’s not scared of hurting. All of my male friends say the same thing.
“The bitch, oh the bitch, the bitch is back…I’m a bitch cuz I’m better then you, it’s the way that I move
The things that I do…” Elton John
“People try to tell me thoughts they cannot defend…” The Moody Blues
“To start, press any key. Where’s the any key?” Homer Simpson.
Most people would think that 5’8, 130 is a healthy weight for that height (I myself am inclined to think maybe 140-150 would be good for that height–that’s tall for a female). The trouble is, she’s being portrayed as “full figured.” If those are her actual stats, she is in no way “full figured.” She’s just right. But she’s being shown as a big woman. Why? Because she’s not rail-thin, like Callista & Gwyneth?
Cristi, Slayer of Peeps
I made my husband join a bridge club. He jumps next Tuesday.
Health is not about being fat or thin. It is about being healthy. I know we all live busy lives and all that, but no one is going to get healthy without eating healthy food and exersising. When I say healthy food I mean real food. I also mean a good amount. Our bodies were not made to run optimaly on reduced fat twinkies. Our bodies were made to be hungry for a reason. Eating less food may (or may not) make you thinner, but it will NOT make you healthy. If you are eating good food it ought to be possible to eat until full whenever you are hungry without health risks (granted that means not eating when you are not hungry). The problem is that no one eats real food anymore. We eat fast food, packaged food and processed food. I am constantly seeing ads for things that promise “real fruit flavor”, but why not just eat real fruit? We consider a hamburger and fries a real meal. That is not food. It is a stomach-filler, but will NOT make you healthy. And who drinks enough water? Almost no one. Health is fairly simple. It does not require complex plans, special food or lots of money. It does require changeing habits.
I also see lots of people talking about exersise and joining gyms who don’t know the least bit about being healthy. These people will spends tons of money on fancy machines, but drive their car to the gym instead of (logically) walking. Until people start walking to the places they need to go whenever possible, I am not impressed with their efforts.
So you see, striving to get thin is not a sign of striving to be healthy. A person can be heavy and still be healthy. As long as you eat well and exersise, you are living a healthy lifestyle, fat or thin. It all falls to a simple question: do you have healthy food and exersise? There is not other way. There is no short cut to health.
I totally agree that there is a problem with weight in this country. But there is a problem with being reminded. I’m not gonna go over what everyone else here has said since I agree with most of the stuff said. I just think we all need to learn to love who we are and make sure that we are healthy. Cuz you can be big and healthy.
Myself I’m 6’1 and 200lbs last I checked. I don’t watch the scales anymore. I’ve always been tall and bigger then most of the people in my classes. I was teased from kindergarten onward. It didn’t start to bother me till grade 2 because we moved and I was the new kid in town before then I had friends. But afterwards I was the odd one out always teased and told I was fat and ugly and a whole plethora of names. It wasn’t until we moved again that I actually became comfortable with my body. I lost maybe 20 lbs which I did need to lose and I’ve maintained my weight ever since. As my Mom says I’ve grown into myself. And yet I still feel bad about how I look though its not as bad as before nor as bad as it could be. Much of it is from past experiences as well as the ‘rolemodels’ your holding up. Which is why I stopped reading beauty magazines.
I also know a girl who looks very nice she is not fat or too thin she is just fine. She wants to become a model and she went to one of the agencies. She was told to lose weight. I couldn’t believe it (or maybe I could I was just mad at the guy that told her this). She does not need to lose weight but according to the people she did. Its stuff like that that makes up feel bad about our bodies.
Bargain not with the Darkness: in time it will take us all.
Exerpted from The Book of Nod
St. TopazAntares: Patron Saint of Quintuplet Posts. And Patron Saint of Chinese Food. Courtesy of SwimmingRiddles
Well, not doubt I’ve tapped into a very sensitive nerve with many of the posters here. I doubt I would have raised more ire had I attacked people’s ethnic or religious background.
Before there is a mob lynching here permit me to say this much.
I have been battling weight gain all my life. In elementary school I was one of the rolly-polliest kids in the class. In high school I was not much better. For me, the battle of the bulge has been an ever present challenge. It was not until my mid 20’s that I managed to reduce my weight to a place where I was finally happy with my body image. Coincidentally, it was also the peak of my physical fitness level in all aspects. How did I do it? Well, it was not due to any fad diet or cure all pill. It took a regimented healthy diet (which does not mean supplements or expensive/exotic foods) and regular and vigorous exercise.
I must admit that in my early 30’s I fell off the wagon. At my worst, I was 70 pounds over my fighting weight of 165lb. At 5’8" and large boned build, I was not a handsome sight. I hated myself and I hated my failure to maintain my healthy weight. Sure, it would have been easy to give up and say, “Just love me for who I am!” The fact is, I was not healthy, I did not feel healthy and I did not look healthy. No matter how often I told myself that I was still me, the mirror told me I was simply not the me I knew I could be. So I got back on the wagon. No fad diets. No phen-phen miracle cures. I got my meat and potatoes cravings under control. I set goals and followed through. Sure sometimes I slipped a little, but I never threw my hands up in the air and declared surrender. I simply resolved to do better next day. It was slow going and with a major longterm health setback (possibly due to my 70lb weight gain, lack of exercise and heavy stress) I am now down to within 20lb of my goal. I’m determined to attain my goal this year.
I’m still battling the urge to eat things I ought not. I still have to drive myself hard to get out and exercise. My health setback is still with me. Unfortunately it’s going to be with me for the rest of my lifetime. It’s a chronic illness that seriously impacts my lifestyle. Healthy eating and regular exercise makes the fight easier in some ways. And for those who say time is the enemy, I’d like to quote an earlier poster…“BULSHIT!”… I’ve got a wife, two very young kids, and a full time job. All of these things demand and deserve my attention. But my health is also important. Without my health I may not live to see my kids grow to adult hood. Without my health I will not handle the stresses of my job very well. Without my health my wife’s job will be all that much harder.
So the way I look at it, if you are not doing everything reasonable to maximize your health you are doing a dis-service to all those who love you and depend on you. All excuses to the contrary are simply …well… BULLSHIT!
As for Hollywood, I have no great love or admiration of it. I simply think that in the area of healthy lifestyle images,it is not entirely deserving of the venom to which it is subjected. Everybody needs a benchmark or goal to strive for. As reasoning and intelligent adults I expect that we can separate the wheat from the chaff. We don’t have to look like Twiggy but we also don’t have to look like Roseann Barr. Most of you don’t settle for the path of least resistance when it comes to intellectual pursuits. Why settle for less when it comes to your physical health and appearance?
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of 100 post anniversaries. Conversely, Patron Saint of Thermometers.
Entertainment and media sends out a powerful message about body image. As many previous posters have pointed out, the image that is projected is not realistic. Eating disorders are no fun, folks, and anorexia nervosa has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness. (I believe - correct me if I am wrong) Anorexia and bulimia are extreme examples, but even yo-yo dieting is detrimental to one’s health. I think the image Hollywood projects is flat-out horrible, especially the women. Famine refugees in designer gowns should not be held up as the beauty ideal.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. Also, the constant holding-up of unrealistic images is discouraging and dispiriting (“Well, I’ll never look like that, so why try?”).
All this is compounded by the fact that some people feel obligated to point out to overweight people that they need to lose weight (parents and skinny friends are notorious for this, in my experience).
Well no @##*$& Sherlock! So in addition to being fat, I’m stupid, too?
I could go on about said people thinking I lack willpower, or possibly the ability to operate a bathroom scale, but now I’m too mad. Grrrr …
Not sure about that statistic. Every time a hear a statistic that quotes that something or other is the leading cause of this and that I find myself searching for grains of salt. But I’ll agree Anorexia and Bulimia are very bad. Not sure you’ll find proof that most models and actors either bulemic or anorexic… though they are thin.
Again, don’t see many flies hovering around the Victoria’s Secret models. In fact, they look to be quite healthy. Same for the International Male models.
If we are to discuss the down sides to extremes, should we not include a bunch of other examples. Let’s start with professional atheletes. How many here think that going 120mph down the hill on a couple of fiberglass and metal sticks is admirable? How many think it’s a good example for out kids who dream of being Olympic skiers? I must admit, I had that dream. I’ve skied against some of the best skiers in Canada. A few of them were good enough to eventually join the Olympic team. I was never much of a threat to them - much as I tried. As a result, my knees are shot. My back was out for a year after a particularly nasty fall. Perhaps we should not hold these folks up as an ideal? It’s a dangerous thing they do. No doubt, it’s a huge risk to their health and not a few have met with tragedy over the years. Same goes for almost any sport (except maybe bowling, curling, golf, etc…)
I’m not trying to say that models and stars deserve the same recognition as some of the world’s greatest atheletes. Honest I’m not. I do know the difference.
I’m just trying to illustrate that in every aspect of humanity there is a tendency to strive towards a perceived ideal. It’s easy to go too far. But it’s much easier to say, “I don’t think I could ever be that!”, and not go far enough… or even try for that matter.
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of 100 post anniversaries. Conversely, Patron Saint of Thermometers.
Several posters in this thread have dropped in the old “fast/slow metabolism” buzzphrase.
Don’t. As Cecil himself has explained, there’s nothing to it.
Overweight people are overweight because calories in > calories out, not because their “motor” idles too low.
Most will agree that there is a disproportionately large amount of obese people in the US and that obesity is detrimental to one’s health.
It seems by the latest round of posts that a similar number will also say that it’s not their fault that they are heavy and thus should not be subjected to constant reminders by various media of a socially accepted thinner body image.
And yet, somebody wants to see thin/fit/muscular individuals in the movies and magazines. Somebody demands that our entertainers be above average looking. Could this all be a conspiracy by those dastardly thin film directors and magazine moguls? Could this endless demand for finely cut physiques displayed in the entertainment rags be some kind of deliberate plot to make fat people feel self concious on a daily, nay, hourly basis? Is this fat baiting some kind of underworld plot by the thin and fit people of america to brainwash us chubbies into shedding unwanted pounds?
Come on. If we are honest for just a moment with ourselves… wouldn’t we rather see Cindy Crawfor than Rosie O’Donell in a bikini on a beach? Doesn’t Brad Pitt strike a nicer pose than David Goodman?
We all have a slightly different definition of beauty but somehow, the most common denominator (much more often than not) is a fit, tight body - be it male or female.
Face it. Chubbie may have been the height of fashion during the baroque period, but these days, those Rubinesque figures just don’t make the Playboy pages.
Yikes… I can tell I’m really gonna get it now…(nothing sheds the pounds like being pursued by an angry mob… ;))
Brad Pitt? Does he strike a better pose cause he’s thin? I don’t get it. I suppose he does, if you want to objectivfy everyone.
My bf is overweight, but I love his body. I think he looks great.
When growing up, I Wish thin was in. Nobody liked the way i lloked(too thin) back then. Heck, I’m Trying to gain weight.
I think Kate Winslet looks better than Calista any way. These models Do look like theyre starving.
I am one of those people who if I “really try,” I can lose weight like there’s no tomorrow. I once lost 30 pounds in 20 days. Did I keep it off? No, of course not.
I’m 6’2", and 220 pounds. (and I’m male, and 22 yrs. old, which probably also makes a difference here) I consider myself fat, but nobody else does. So, I’m currently on a diet that is working so far, and I pray that it lasts my lifetime.
I know that some people just cannot lose weight, to save their souls. But many can, if they change their lifestyle. Yes Phouka, it can be done.
True, it ultimately comes down to calories in, calories out, but that still doesn’t equate to all of us having the exact same ability to deal with our excess weight. Cecil’s column simply eliminated one potential explanation for why that is so. And people will probably continue to use the word ‘metabolism’ (as something less than a term of art) as a shorthand for that difference, until someone comes up with a better one that takes hold.
No problem there.
Boy, did you miss my point, QuickSilver. What I said was, no matter what the cause of a person’s excess weight, those constant reminders from the media are counterproductive to their attempts to respond to their weight problems in a healthy way. (Thanks for picking up on that, CatInHat.)
Of course we want our TV and film stars to be better-looking, on the whole, than we are. But one can be exceedingly good-looking and be a normal size. I can certainly blame Hollywood for not picking up on that obvious fact, and doing something useful with it.
Still, it doesn’t take a conspiracy theory to explain why they don’t. Apparently it has long been a cultural norm for the ‘chic’ standard of beauty to be something mostly unattainable by your ‘wretched masses,’ going back as far as the days when said masses had trouble getting enough to eat, and ‘pleasingly plump’ was indeed considered pleasing. (No, I don’t have a cite. Sorry.)
Nowadays, getting enough food is no problem; however, the increased complexity of modern life, less time and manpower available in the home to prepare healthy meals, the resulting rise of a fast-food industry that doesn’t go out of its way to offer healthy choices (whatever happened to salad bars in Wendy’s, and why didn’t Mickey D’s have them in the first place?) and the increasingly sedentary nature of our means of entertainment, have all made it difficult to attain normal health, let alone the slimness of the stars with their dieticians and personal trainers. (Most Americans earn less than those trainers and dieticians, which makes it hard to afford them.) So ultra-slim is chic.
While it’s true that, individually, we can live in ways that counteract these forces, (a) individually, it’s a lot more difficult than it used to be; and (b) as a society, it’s just plain not going to happen: anytime you’ve got large-scale forces v. individual choices to act responsibly, the individual choices will win out here and there, but once you start looking at large numbers of people, you should bet on the large forces every time.
When the tide is coming in, a fair number of individual water molecules are moving away from the beach at any given moment, but the moon is still pulling the tide in. And as long as there are strong and numerous tidal forces acting to make it more difficult for people to live healthy lives, the Brownian motion of individual choices won’t make more than a negligible difference at the societal level. Some people will live healthy lives anyway, but as a people, we’ll keep getting fatter.
Yikes. The timestamp gremlins have really had their way with this thread.
QuickSilver posted:
The same unrealistic weight standards just don’t apply for male models and actors. Look at the cast of Friends, for example. The female cast members (Courtney Cox and Jennifer Aniston, in particular) look like skin draped over skeletons. The male cast members look to be of average weight. The Victoria’s Secret models appear a little more voluptuous than “high fashion” models, but even they are underweight. It just isn’t natural for most women to have large breasts over prominent ribs, without silicone enhancements.
Comparing seriously underweight models/entertainers to professional athletes is apples and oranges. Unless you’ve demonstrated a strong talent and desire to be a world-class athlete, no one expects you to try. Most people just can’t physically do that. But the expectation/perception is that anyone can lose weight. All you have to do is starve yourself, even if it kills you.
Release the hounds. No, you’re being very fair and reasonable here. This is just, obviously, a very personal issue to a lot of people. Myself included. I have struggled with eating disorders for most of my life.
Phew, I’m glad I voted for RT Firefly for Galactic Emeror and hope I get a chance to do so again.
Pleasing plump was fashionable around Abe Lincoln’s time for Mary Todd Lincoln’s evening dresses were designed to show off rounded shoulders and arms. See that elementary school education was good for something after all. And take a look at Mona Lisa! Forget the grin, look at those shoulders!
How admirable would those Greek and Roman statues be if those women looked like our modern models instead of the “picture” of health and vitallity they depict? How about one Pheobe (Friends) as the model for the Statue of Liberty?
And wasn’t Mae West a dainty little thing!
My great grandmothers shopped for and bought dresses made especially for them, the short and plump. Those darling women lived into their late 80s, alone in their own houses or apartments, the last 15-20 years widowed.
This may be one of those cases in which what is good for the gander is less than good for the geese.
No, you’re being very fair and reasonable here. This is just, obviously, a very personal issue to a lot of people. Myself included. I have struggled with eating disorders for most of my life.