The Fat vs Thin debate in America

Countless TV reports, news and medical magazines are reporting that too many Americans are dramatically overweight. Some statistics quote figures as high as 50% of the population can be classified as obese. It’s generally accepted, by the medical profession, that a person may be classified as obese if he/she is more than 30lb overweight and that extra weight is primarily due to excess body fat.

The same TV programs and magazines also decry the latest Hollywood image of the human body. The stars and starlettes are being accused of being ultra-thin (i.e. Calista Flockheart, Courtney Cox, etc…).

For once I have to side with Hollywood. Yes Hollywood has always portraid an idealistic view of the male and female body. The actors in Hollywood are not usually a reflection of the average American - though I have seen some very above average Americans outside of Hollywood… but I digress…

It’s a medically agreed upon fact that high fat content in the body plays a major roll in many serious, often life threatening diseases. Though there is little to admire Hollywood for, the thin trend (highlighted as of late) is influencing at least some young people to shed excess pounds. What remains to be debated is if that’s a good or bad thing.

In my opinion it is mostly good. Most stars (as much as I’ve seen/heard) openly and actively support healthy lifestyles (while on camera at least). They, almost all without exception, have personal trainers and dietitians who assist them with their health programs. They push various diet products and exercise videos. Primarily to fatten their bank accounts (natch!) but to some degree to help the wretched masses shed excess pounds and improve their overall health.

Putting hollywood aside for the moment… there is some fairly recent research done on lab animals that report increases in life spans between 20% and 75% (depending on the species being tested) for animals that have been fed enough of the right foods simply to support their normal metabolic functions and average daily activity.

The speculation by many nutritionists and doctors is that similar gains may be realized by most humans if they simply learned to forgo that greasy hamburger, fries and sugar laden soda.

In fact, if humans reduced their caloric intake to a level just above starvation and adjusted their eating habits to maximize the nutritional value of every meal, exercise would be far less necessary to maintain a healthy and thriving body. Every day activities of walking and perhaps simple resistance exercises would be sufficient to maintain optimal health throughout a potentially longer lifetime.

So is the latest Hollywood body image largely a good example or a great detriment to us and our highly impressionable kids?

I think we can leave Hollywood out of it and just examine general attitudes towards fat.

You are right that most overweight people would be healthier if they ate less and exercised more. However, I think they’ve gotten a raw deal overall. Everybody makes choices in life, balancing work, stress, play, etc, but fat people have to wear that choice on the outside whereas most others can pretend to perfection.

IMO, each individual should be free to choose how much to eat, whether to exercise, whether to participate in risky sports, etc. without judgment. The truth is, you can rarely tell the difference between:

A) The fat woman who is balancing a stressful career, three kids, no time to exercise and a genetic disposition towards obesity

B) The fat woman who stays at home and eats because she’s lonely and depressed

C) The fat woman who has a thyroid imbalance and couldn’t be skinny if she starved herself

D) The fat woman who likes to hike 30 miles and then sit down for a big steak and potatoes meal, and who values those pleasures more than the extra bulk she carries

All in all, nobody’s perfect and everybody makes decisions about what they’re going to accept about themselves and what they’re going to try to improve. Given that few people are really ignorant about the effects of obesity, we probably shouldn’t second-guess the decisions they’ve made.

In other words… we should all leave both Hollywood and fat people alone and stop making such a big deal over weight.

Of course you are right. People should be left alone to consume as much or as little food as they feel they need/want.

But the OP specifically asks (suggests?) that perhaps, for a change, the entertainmente industry is showing us positive role models. Perhaps it’s not such a bad thing that our teenagers are encouraged to shed un-necessary pounds and embrace a more health concious lifestyle.

I for one don’t find the stick figured, large headed look of today’s actresses very attractive. On the other hand, on average, these skinny little waifs are probably much healthier than the average obese person in their age group.

Much as I loath to admit it, I do believe that Hollywood, in this aspect at least (at most?), is having a positive influence on our society.

Of course I could be wrong… it’s happened once before.


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Meara - Thank you. Wonderful post.

Quicksilver - it’s not neccesarily the case that the stick-thin actresses are healthier than the average obese person. Being too skinny can be just as dangerous as being too fat. The problems are just different.

I’m also loath to pat Hollywood and the fashion industry on the back for one reason. Yes, there are many people out there who are morbidly obese and can look to them for inspiration. However, there are also people who look at those images, are NOT that overweight (15 pounds or less), and go into a cycle of trying deperately to lose weight they don’t need to lose.

I don’t think the industry is promoting a healthy lifestyle. It’s promoting a THIN lifestyle, which, IMO, is a different thing altogether.

But, as you said yourself, I could be wrong. :slight_smile:

Hollywood is not helping anyone by putting up stick figures as role models.
People come in all sizes, but there seems to be only one desirable size, all else are easy targets for derision.
The OP makes a leap in logic that I find a little dangerous: Starvation diets can prolong your life. Hollywood has a new lollypop-head fashion esthetic. Hollywood is right in promoting stick figures as our role models.
I’m a big girl. I used to be big and healthy, no one gave a damn about the healthy part-- only the big. People come in all sizes. Let’s celebrate that.

I’d also like to add the fat woman who cracks jokes about it because she is confident in herself.

ALERT! Personal Anecdote!!!

It’s rare, although I have met women who posess this sort of self confidence. A good friend of mine has this attitude. She is a rather large gal, but flaunts her sexualtiy and makes jokes, overall encompassing a wonderfully broad & fun personality!

I also have another girlfriend who is exceptionally skinny. She just happens to have high-metabolism and small bones. She is so self-conscious of this that she won’t wear shorts or short dresses, even in the California summer heat.

So, go figure (pardon the pun).


ENFP Prayer: Dear God, please help me keep my mind on one - oh look a bird! - thing at a time

I was responding to the tone of your post more than the specific question, because I believe that tone is problematic.

You bandied about things like:

“learned to forgo that greasy hamburger, fries and sugar laden soda”

“help the wretched masses shed excess pounds”

and then suggested very clinically that we should all reduce our caloric intake to just above starvation.

To me, that’s as good as suggesting that we all spend 60 minutes a day on the elliptical trainer, eliminate all workplace stress, never drive above the speed limit or in the rain, never bungee-jump or climb mountains or ski, never smoke, drink or eat an ounce of refined sugar, etc.

Life is about trade-offs. Although I don’t really follow Hollywood much, I would think the best role-models would be those who made worthwhile choices. Right now it seems that fat is considered unacceptable no matter what the alternatives (less time with kids, diet obsession, smoking, etc). I find that quite unfortunate.

My whole problem with any kind of body image role modeling is as follows.

According to medicine (or at least to the drkoop.com website), my weight is healthy. I have a lifestyle which I enjoy and which contributes to my mental health. And I’m considered attractive, at least by some people, given the amount of sex I have. :slight_smile:

However, the last issue of Fugues magazine was all about how I should change my appearance by ways ranging from the gym to plastic surgery. Not one word was printed on self-image, loving your body, or body diversity. The message, in other words, is that despite my health, equilibrium, and desirability, my body is unacceptable and ought to be changed immediately.

I have a goatee, unruly hair, myopia, body hair, a large non-muscular frame, a large pelvis, and a generally round (or at least elliptical) body shape. I used to be much fatter, but I lost a lot of weight since I went through puberty.

I am not encouraged to think of these as things that anybody might possibly find attractive, despite the fact that they do. If I wasn’t stronger-willed, I’d probably be an anorectic gym bunny, saving up for collagen injections. Or at least helplessly depressed about the way I look. I still get that way on occasion.

It pisses me off.

My wife is a Psych Nurse who works with eating disorders (primarily Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia), and as part of her therapy has done a lot of research into healthy eating, the risks of being overweight, etc.

According to her, it’s a myth that being moderately overweight is a health risk. It’s not until you hit something like 30% over your optimum weight that risks increase for things like diabetes and heart problems. Being too thin causes all kinds of problems, especially in women. Once a woman drops even slightly under her proper weight her hormones will go bananas. Menstruation stops, risks of things like depression increase, etc.

The optimum weight for a woman around 5’7" is something like 130-140 lbs. If a Hollywood Starlet hits 140, she can start looking for work elsewhere, or can resign herself to the types of roles Kathy Bates gets (and those are few and far between). As a result, the typical Hollywood Starlet is probably unhealthily thin.

In any event, even if this lifestyle were healthy, it’s unattainable for people who don’t have the luxury of working out 3 hours a day with their personal trainer. So we have a society of people walking around feeling bad about themselves because of it. That can’t be good.

I saw an interview with David Hasselhoff a while ago. He said that doing “Baywatch” had become a real grind, because any time he gains ten pounds he becomes a laughingstock in the media. But jeez, the guy’s in his mid-late 40’s. To maintain his physique, he was getting up every day at 4 AM and doing 3 hours with his personal trainer before starting his day. And going to bed at 9 every night completely exhausted. What a fun life.

Huh?!? Have you ever tried to function when you haven’t had enough to eat? Think about the last time you were REALLY hungry. Just how much fun was it, and more importantly, did you get anything done? I work a desk job. No physical activity required. If I get hungry, I literally can’t get a damn thing done. It’s very hard to function in the real work on a starvation diet.

(I recently began a new workout program which is wreaking havoc with my metabolism, so I’ve had a lot of recent experience with trying to do whatever I’m doing while feeling like I might kill the next person who walked by with a donut.)

Not to mention, those “role models” in Hollywood often resort to smoking cigarettes or eating barely enough to keep them going all day. I once read something that said that supermodels ate cotton balls dipped in orange juice because they made them feel full. Kate Winslet (5’8", 130 pounds) usually gets pictured in magazines as a lovely “full figured” model. What are these sorts of things supposed to make normal women think?

I think the problem here is that there truly are very few examples of healthy-looking women out there. The women in Hollywood are routinely underweight. There are some female atheletes who come to mind as good examples of healthy bodies, but very few.


There’s a pork chop in every beer.

Falcon:

Somebody 15 pounds overweight does not have a weight problem. No-one can accuse a person so slightly overweight of being obese. I suspect there is very little peere pressure on them to shed the 15lb. It’s probably themselves that feel the extra weight and try to loose it. In the attempt to lose it they probably gain significantly from the good habits of diet and exercise they must practice to achieve that goal. Even if they never quite achieve it, they still benefit healthwise.

Biggirl:
Hollywood is a world of extremes and fads. Few people live that life of extremes, and fads never last. It isn’t Hollywood that makes the claim that obesity is dangerous to one’s health. It’s medical research. Hollywood simply promotes a healthy “looking” lifestyle. How that lifestyle may be achieved should no longer be a mystery to anyone in America. Correct diet (for the individual in question) and regular exercise.

I do agree with you on one point. People are not created equal and they do have to play the hand they are dealt. Some people do not have to deal with weight issues while others battle the bulge every day of their life. But it’s a battle that most people can win if they want it bad enough.

Ophelia:

…or she could be cracking jokes because she’s uncomfortable with her size and feels that it’s a way of beating people to the punchline because she fears they may be judging her. Inside she may be crying. But I have no way of knowing for sure. You must admit, it’s a strong possibility.

The skinny woman may be self concious about her legs but I doubt she dreams of putting on a hundred pounds and slipping into a size 24 dress. Some people are concious about height, lack of hair, too much hair, big feet, small breasts, large breasts… the list goes on.

My point is, if a person wants to loose weight and puts their mind to it, then they will most likely succeed at it. If you are happy with how you are, then more power to you. But it’s equally unfair to sit in a lazy boy chair and inhale ho-hos with a gallon of ice cream while blaming fashion models for society’s tendency to admire a size 6 figure in high heels (Or a 40 tall for the male model admirers).

Interesting… I’m 5’6 1/2 or so, my doctor told me never ever ever to go below 140…

If I had a personal trainer, a personal hairstylist, a personal make-up artist, and a personal fashion consultant, I could look like a Hollywood starlet, too. You ever see Calista Flockheart with no make-up? Ewwww. Most of these Hollywood types are 15-20 pounds underweight (take Jennifer Aniston…she’s 5’7" and should therefore weigh around 135 but last I heard, she had dieted down to 105.) They do this because (supposedly) the camera adds 20 pounds. Speaking personally, I rarely notice a person’s looks. I’m drawn to personality (and dreamy bedroom eyes and a sexy pouty mouth…wait a minute…okay, I’m better now). But the images we see in media are warped. I have a 9 year old son who thinks he needs to start lifting weights and go on a diet. He rarely watches T.V., preferring instead to ride his bike or roller-blade all over Hell’s half-acre with his friends from the time he gets home from school until I force him to come inside and eat supper. He’s not one of these lethargic couch potatos Parents magazine keeps warning me about. And yet he’s still dissatisfied with how he looks. Even though he’s already got 11 and 12 year old girls crawling all over him (anybody got a stick I can borrow?). I wear a size 14 myself but I still got it goin’ ON, baby. People need to stop obsessing about what the scale says and just develop ATTITUDE.


Never ever watch “Night of the Lepus” unless you’re really, really, REALLY drunk

{Italics mine}
You’re kidding, right? Maybe it’s what part of the country you are from. Some areas are less fat-conscious. But I was born and raised in S. Cal., and any degree of excess weight is forbidden. When I was a teenager, I was cute, a little plump, with curves that gave me some extra pounds. I was NOT obese, but was constantly reminded that I was. The pressure was terrible.

There is NOTHING healthy about Hollywood’s thin craze. I suspect it promotes more young people to be anorexic than it promotes “fatties” to cut back on their eating. In my case, I gave up in dispair, because I could never get rid of those curves. So I got fat for REAL. Yeah, really healthy attitude. Real healthy message. Unless you are stick-thin, you are a fat cow. Kate Winslett is a fat cow, did you know? Oh yeah - such a healthy message.

End of rant (for now.)

Minimizing food consumption does not mean you need to feel hungry through the day. Grazing - multiple small meals per day as opposed to three bigger meals may help one avoid hunger pangs. By the way, I’ve been on fasting diets for 8 days with nothing but veg or fruit juice four times per day. It’s hard for the first few days but then your body adjusts. I’ve also got a desk job and that’s fortunate. I don’t think I could maintain that kind of diet for 8 days if I worked construction.

Usually, exercise helps me deal better with stress. I wish I had more time to make exercise a daily part of my life.

I said they portray a healthy lifestyle. I didn’t say they follow one. Though I’m sure that many do.

Notice I said that msot models try to portray a healthy body image, not a good intellectual roll model. :wink:

I hope most think that 5’8" @ 130lb is a healthy weight for that height. I hope they don’t think 5’8" @ 200lb is close enough.

While shopping for groceries, I often leaf through a copy of Women’s Fitness or Fit or some such glossy mag. I find most women featured in the articles very healthy looking. Most are not professional atheletes. At my gym, which I must frequent more often, there are many examples of fit women of all ages. There are examples, you just have to know where to look.

This sort of language is the problem.

Where do you get this image of someone sitting on a lazy boy chair with a gallon of ice cream, inhaling ho-hos while criticizing the thin?

Most fat people I know are normal folks who just don’t have the time or energy to reduce their weight. They work long hours, often have to eat fast food on the run, don’t have the time to exercise, etc. In many cases, they are eating the same foods and living the same lifestyles as their co-workers – just not with metabolisms that can handle it.

I think we could solve this easily if people would just drop the thinly-veiled contempt. Date who you want to, admire who you want to, but stop feeling obligated to remind the 200lb woman that she “could lose the weight if she tried”. Chances are:

A) She knows that and has decided that other things in her life are more important

B) Despite your mental imagery, she is not some hippo that sits around stuffing her face

C) She is aware that she would be healthier at a lower weight, so all you are doing is making her sad (like telling a single parent “your kids would be a lot happier if you didn’t work”)

D) She probably doesn’t care how thin Calista Flockhart is – her life’s too busy for that

Being obese is not healthy. I don’t think anyone would argue with you, Quicksilver, on this point.
The OP suggests that Hollywood is doing this country a service by glamorizing the new heroin chic look. I am disagreeing with this. I say “Hollywood” because this was the word you used. I mean the whole celebrity producing, fashion model promoting, it-is-better-to-look-good-than-to-feel-good media machine that I am refering to when I say “Hollywood”.
This media machine is not promoting health. What they are promoting is quite the opposite: an unhealth beauty esthetic.

And Quicksilver, I wont even get into the:

My point is, if a person wants to loose weight and puts their mind to it, then they will most likely succeed at it. If you are happy with how you are, then more power to you.

remark.

Well, maybe I will. Don’t you think that if it was just a matter of “putting their mind to it” everyone would be skinny?

Bullshit.

Bullshit.

BULLSHIT

Take a look at the diet industry, where a 90% recidivism rate is considered better than average. Take a look at the millions of people who try three and four times a year to lose weight, manage to shed a few pounds, and then gain it all right back plus a little more. Talk to some women in a plus size store and find out if they’re weak willed or lazy or if they just don’t really “try”.

Obesity is not a character flaw. Obesity is NOT a health risk - it’s an indication that there is already a health problem: the body is not sending the correct signals on how much and what kind of foods to ingest.

The medical community has already established links between hyperinsulemia (producing too much insulin), insulin resistance and a whole host of ailments, including diabetes, heart disease, coronary artery disease depression, hormonal disorders and many, many more. What they’re only now discovering is that hyperinsulemia and insulin resistance are most likely the cause of obesity, not the consequence of.

Follow this pattern, if you will:

When insulin is present in the bloodstream, the person feels hungry. When the pancreas produces too much insulin, the person feels hungry all the time, and constantly craves food. They eat, the food is digested, and bloodsugar enters the bloodstream. Except, because of the overproduction of insulin, muscles and organs have become insulin resistant. They don’t respond completely to the presence of insulin. So, the body dumps the bloodsugar into fat cells. But, the muscles and organs are still energy deprived, and there’s still insulin in the system, so the person still feels hungry, so they eat some more.

Voila, a fat person who is always hungry, puts on weight horrifyingly easy, and finds it next to impossible to lose weight. Under these circumstances, is recidivism any surprise?

There is more to this than just some lazy people who can’t be bothered to take care of themselves. There is a fundamental flaw in the modern diet that sparks hyperinsulemia in a large portion of our population. That flaw is compounded by the fact that we, as a society, aren’t active enough.

You want to save fat people? Fund research into obesity and get rid of cars. Don’t praise the anemic waifs on television.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good dipped in chocolate.

“Most fat people I know are normal folks who just don’t have the time or energy to reduce their weight.”

I agree. And some people JUST CAN’T. My dad was a construction worker who played football at lunch with guys half his age. He was, may he rest in peace, fat. My horse trainer can ride us all into the ground. She is fat. Both tried to lose weight repeatedly. My trainer eats a pretty average diet and portion (as did my dad); in fact, she actually eats a little less than I do. Unless you put a person like this through some amazing metabolic accelerator, they WILL NOT lose weight. Ah well - my trainer has a bumpersticker that says “The Fat Are Hard To Kidnap”. She’s got a point :slight_smile:

Well, I was going to respond to Quicksilver’s comment to my post, but yosemite did it for me. I agree with her - when I was in high school, I was about 15 pounds “overweight.” I looked wonderful. And hated the way I looked because I was “supposed to” be thinner. So I gave up and became fat as well.

As for “all you have to do is try.” OH PLEASE! (Meara did a good job on this one too, but I’ll add my own personal take.) Personal story time. I am 5’7". I currently weigh 285 pounds. This is DOWN over 20 from my all time high. I have been on 5 different diets. I’ve lost track of the number of times I joined Weight Watchers. I know I’m overweight. I know it’s unhealthy. I can barely walk anymore without getting short of breath. I’ve lost 20 pounds, and you can barely tell a difference on me. You think this makes me HAPPY?

If all I had to do was “try,” I would have been back to my goal weight 5 years ago. Losing weight is a hard struggle. And comments like yours do not help. I know this - I just spent the last 9 years listening to it come from my mother.


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