The federal government made a serious mistake by caving in to Cliven Bundy


]( gave in to a bunch of terrorists and thugs. That’s a serious mistake, IMO. One that could eventually threaten the sovereignty and supremacy of the fed, perhaps, as people become emboldened by seeing the result of unwavering threats of violence by a large enough group of people: getting what you want.

What person or cause will the militia/freemen/sovereign citizens/tea partiers/etc. rally to next? Which one will be the one where shots are actually fired? What happens if there are 10 situations similar to this one in the next year or two? And why wouldn’t people try this tactic, now that we all know it can work?

And what will the outcome of all that be? Do more people think Mr. Bundy is a hero or a thief? Will this lead to more situations like this, or am I overthinking here?

What do y’all think about the whole BLM vs. Cliven Bundy thing?

He’s been using government land for many, many years without paying for it. His sudden realization that his family was using it in the 1800’s after he paid for years was awfully convenient for him. At the time, the government didn’t bother to care.

Now that the government wants it back for some projects they are going to begin working on, they demanded that he stop using their land and took legal action to do so. Honestly, I think they were nice to just round up his cattle. The hard line stance would have been to use them for sniper practice and simply drop the cattle as they left his land.

The government gave back the cattle, most likely because they weren’t interested in keeping it and didn’t want a bunch of yahoos to turn this into this decades’ Waco or Ruby Ridge incident.

Now, because the government didn’t bother to care, he could have lawyered up and sued to contest their rights to it. Instead, he just kept on doing what he was doing with a group of cattle that was too large to maintain on his owned land while the government contacted him multiple times over something like 7-10 years. At what point should this operation have happened? In another decade?

In my opinion, they should have sold the cattle to slaughterhouses as penalty to recoup the cost of making the owner maintain his cattle within his land boundaries.

I don’t see the point in confrontations of this kind. What’s in it for the government? To make an example so people take their sovereignty seriously? I’d say that would be a sign of insecurity by the government. Serious people don’t doubt the government’s ability to protect its property from these kinds of individuals. Best to be magnanimous. Well played, feds.

You are completely FOS for lumping “militia/freemen/sovereign citizens/tea partiers/etc.” together for purposes of espousing your misguided, misinformed and under-educated opinion.

In including freemen & sovereigns, you might as well have thrown in Travelers & Gypsies as well… maybe homeless squatters too, along with the whole Occupy Wallstreet crowd who defecated on public property, raped, and pillaged.

You have no concept of the principles upon which your own country was founded.

My opinion? Yours is moot, that’s my opinion.

Cliven Bundy did, indeed, violate legally binding orders for him to remove his cattle. The BLM did, indeed, have a legal right to come in and impound his cattle.

What they did NOT have any right whatsoever to do was violate citizens constitutional rights, violate multiple laws themselves, illegally arrest and detain citizens, close such a massive expanse of public land for purposes of executing said orders, and use the kind of threats and intimidation tactics that they used against law abiding citizens who were perfectly within their rights to do what they were doing.

NV Governor Sandoval was absolutely correct in the way he addressed the situation. His position on it perfectly sums up the legal aspect of it. He did not address the issue of BLMs presence there to do what they had multiple legally binding court orders to do; rather, he took issue with the illegal and immoral acts perpetrated by them upon multiple innocent citizens in executing those orders.

When the feds come knocking on your door to illegally take your property (which they do indeed do from time to time) and the police won’t come to help you, you are going to wish that there was a citizens militia assembled to protect your rights and property. And when there’s not, because all the guns have been confiscated and the only people those militia members can afford to look out for is themselves at such a point, you are going to deserve to have your property illegally taken from you.

If you can’t see what’s going on around you in that regard, you are quite simply blind. No, the sky isn’t falling and the country isn’t descending into chaos and ruthless tyranny against all citizens, and Alex Jones is not telling the truth because he is, indeed, a lying POS con man, but things are most certainly headed in the direction of a very gradual, virtually silent takeover by the federal government. And that is something that’s worthy of resistance at all costs, even bloodshed if need be. If you want to give away your constitutional rights, you are not worthy of America.

Wait, what’s going on around us? Who was illegally arrested and detained? What kind of threats and intimidation tactics?

The Occupy people raped and pillaged ?


If you expect me to educate you on 90% of the story which you missed due to lack of interest in informing yourself, forget it. Read the news. Google is your friend. Type in “Clive Bundy” and filter the results using the “Search Tools” button and select “Last 24 hours”. There you will find the answers to those questions and many more.

Cool? Wow.

What does “FOS” stand for?

If you’re going to attack people for not being up on the details of the story you might want to get the name of the rancher right.

It’s “Cliven Bundy” not “Clive Bundy”.

Anyway he asked for you to provide evidence to back up your assertions which is how things work here.

Wrong; that’s just how things work in your head, not here.

If someone is going to post in a comments or forum thread and take issue with another poster’s assertions, it is expected that said someone has at least informed themselves on the most basic aspects of the story about which they are posting. “2Sense” obviously hasn’t even bothered to do so, which essentially means 2Sense is, by popular definition, a troll.

Regardless, I provided said troll with all the information needed to inform him/herself on the issue if he/she so desires.

p.s. Definition #1:

The New York Post is right up there with the Daily Mail as a noted journal of quality news, however apart from the marked absence of rapes mentioned, it is talking about sexual assaults on Occupiers, possibly by denizens of the park who hibernate there in piles of leaves through the Fall disturbed by the ruckus, possibly by opportunist transients, possibly by tourists; not those committed by Occupiers.
****The safety measure comes amid a terrifying spree of sexual assaults — including an alleged rape — in the Zuccotti Park camp.

Kitchen worker Tonye Iketubosin, 26, was arrested Wednesday for allegedly groping an 18-year-old woman after offering to help set up her tent. He is also a suspect in a rape at the park.****
I can actually support the death penalty for grope, but terrifying is an improbable adjective.

Often dealt with in Britain with a sharp: “Bugger off.”.
The grope victims include Kara Demetropoulos, who told The Post she was fondled in a tent last Saturday night after accepting a man’s offer of a place to sleep.
Stone me.

More people may have to move. The protest organizers plan to put up seven more large tents, including ones for gay and transgender people, co-ed tents and a medical tent.
Again, no mention of rape.
*Yesterday, former Mayor Giuliani said President Obama must take responsibility for the “very dangerous” OWS movement.

“Barack Obama owns the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement; it would not have happened but for his class warfare,” Giuliani told the conservative Americans for Prosperity Foundation summit in DC.*

Wise words indeed.
[ Sometimes that man seems to want a good kicking. ]

Hi! I can see you’re new here (and tbh if your join date was hidden, I could have guessed), so let me explain this one to you.

One of the nice things about this forum, especially the “Great Debates” section is exactly that - this courteous culture we have of citation. If you make a claim which is not immediately apparent or widely accepted, you are expected to back it up. When discussing issues like this, it’s not enough to say “look it up”; you’re expected to support your claim with evidence. It’s not how things work in a lot of forums, but it’s absolutely how things work here.

…On a side note, here’s a tip for general forum etiquette. If you’re new on a forum (like, joined no less than two weeks ago, more realistically a few days ago) and an older member gives you advice on how people generally act on said forum, “that’s not how things work here” is probably a poor choice; “that’s only how things work in your head” is a straight-up awful choice.

Oh dear.

Welcome to SDMB. Please, stick around. It’s funny.

So… How 'bout those federal gun control laws Obama passed, huh? And those mass of gun control laws pushed through state regulations recently?

…Oh wait.

Prove it.


Welcome to th Straight Dope Message Board. I encourage you to browse the various fora and participate in ongoing discussions.

I also suggest you read the rules. It is a violation of board rules to call another poster a troll, a liar or to insult another poster. Doing so will earn you warnings. Enough warnings and your posting privileges can be revoked.

Your post quoted about could easily result in a warning but I will forbear because you rebrand new. But further remarks of this sort will be warned. Please don’t do so again.

Jonathan Chance
Great Debates

The real question, of course, is whether or not the cows had fringe on them.

The rare and sometimes beautiful maritime gold fringed cow.

From Urban Dictionary:

Steve is hot for Bo.

Incidentally, I’ve been watching a lot of Freemen/SovCit vids on youtube and have lost any and all misgivings I may have harbored about the invention of tasers.

I think I saw this happen in an episode of Big Love.

It’s about time that Obama character realizes who he is dealing with in the Western states. That so-called constitutional scholar doesn’t even realize that the income tax is unconstitutional!

Did you see the antics of the guy in the Idaho courthouse who kept insisting they couldn’t stop him from bringing his camera in?