The Festival of Lights Miracle: Why do they say there WAS enough oil?

[Skammer]

If you start with the assumptions that 1)there are no miracles and 2) the oil burned for eight days, then you have to conclude 3) there was enough oil for eight days.

It’s not that there is “new” evidence. It’s simply the logical conclusion if you discount the possibility of a miracle taking place.

[Hello_Again]

@handsomeharry

Well, I’m not really needing any info on miracles, per se.
What I’m looking for is the reason for the newly acquired confidence/brashness/forwardness in saying that the miracle aspect was decidedly wrong, and that there was enough oil all along. That is a new thing, in my experience, and I was wondering what the stimulus was for this gratuitous casting aside of the miraculous aspect. The ones that comment on the holiday, just seem to throw in 'but there was plenty of oil all along." I heard some of it on tv, can’t remember channel, and it struck me that they usually don’t offend any religious groups, when they can avoid it.

hh

I just find it interesting because I live in a predominantly Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in NYC, and I have not heard this put forward “brashly” or “frequently” or even at all.

It strikes me as something only a non-Jew would think has significant consequencecs for Jewish practice. There is zero evidence for the Exodus from Egypt, and this doesn’t put a damper on Passover at all.

[Colibri]

@CurtC

Why? I think the general subject of miracles is what explains the answer to the OP.

[Moderating]

What I meant was, let’s not extend this into a discussion of a whole variety of other miracles such as the Virgin Birth. Let’s focus on the explanation for the specific miracle in the OP.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Colibri]

@handsomeharry

Well, I’m not really needing any info on miracles, per se.
What I’m looking for is the reason for the newly acquired confidence/brashness/forwardness in saying that the miracle aspect was decidedly wrong, and that there was enough oil all along. That is a new thing, in my experience, and I was wondering what the stimulus was for this gratuitous casting aside of the miraculous aspect. The ones that comment on the holiday, just seem to throw in 'but there was plenty of oil all along." I heard some of it on tv, can’t remember channel, and it struck me that they usually don’t offend any religious groups, when they can avoid it.

hh

You haven’t provided any evidence that there is any “newly acquired brashness” at all. This seems to be based entirely on your personal perception.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Skammer

If you start with the assumptions that 1)there are no miracles and 2) the oil burned for eight days, then you have to conclude 3) there was enough oil for eight days.

It’s not that there is “new” evidence. It’s simply the logical conclusion if you discount the possibility of a miracle taking place.

Right, it’s part of a 19th/20th century attempt to “rationalize” miracles, like, for example, not discussion, the idea that the parting of the Red Sea was due to an earthquake, or that the Great Flood was based on local floods.

[handsomeharry]

[

@Colibri

You haven’t provided any evidence that there is any “newly acquired brashness” at all. This seems to be based entirely on your personal perception.

I’d say that’s 100 percent correct. My OP isn’t anything that has a background of literature to back it up. I wasn’t even trying to imply that I’ve heard it more that 5 times within the last 5 years, so I apologize if I gave that impression. It was only something that caught my attention, and I am curious.

I would like to make sure that my OP is understood. Perhaps I can tighten it up a bit. So, let me rephrase my OP: “Are there any new assertions by academics, within the last 10 years, disputing the contention of a Channukah miracle regarding the supply of oil for the menorah? I’ve got it in my head that there are.”

Thanks,
hh

[Lemur866]

Well, besides the fact that the earliest references to Channukah don’t mention the miracle of the oil?