I am not avoiding that. In fact, I think this is one of the rare occasions Godwin has to be omitted; only an obtuse though will ignore the rest of the OP. And I see the champion of the obtuses here.
Back to subject:
Kinda, I already explained why it has some shit to do with it, now will you have the guts to deal with the Salvadorian Solution to Iraq, or you will show the flair of the chicken hawks and avoid the subject?
GIGO, they got you, give it up. Your OP title is excessively dramatic, which conclusively proves that the situation you allude to does not, and did not, exist.
The USA has been historically unswerving in its devotion to the well being of Central America, intensely committed to progress and stability. Where these two were incompatible, naturally, stability was to be preferred. Vast amounts of generous assistance was provided for those persons most reliable in fostering stability. Indeed, many of El Salvador’s military elite were trained in America, and schooled in the values of freedom and democracy, and trained in the techniques of their application.
And John Negroponte! Can one say enough about John Negroponte! To this very day, throughout Central America, his name is remembered with deep gratitude and affection, anywhere the warm light of a benificent and paternal America has shone! How often you hear the sentimental desire to embrace him, or at least seize him firmly in both hands! Mention his name, and they will rattle off a burst of colorful Spanish phrases, and then spit (a gesture of respect and kindly regard).
One can only hope that, in the years to come, the Iraqi people will be as united in their happy gratitude to America as the fortunate citizens of El Salvador! Why, to this day, you can walk into quiet, sparsely populated villages, and by shouting “¡Los americanos están viniendo!” (The Americans are coming!) treat yourself to the sight of colorful indigenous natives scurrying madly about, grabbing their children and dashing off into the forest! “The American’s are coming!” is sure to be a phrase written in the hearts of Iraqi people throughout that lucky, lucky country!
I agree that my title choice remains stuck in the feeble minds of some, and…
- looks back at elucidator’s post -
And here I cut a long reply that I did before realizing luci was whooshing me! :smack:
For the clueless out there: the situation on Iraq is now changing. What it was, a war against insurgents, now will be turned to a war against anyone suspected even of tolerating the insurgents, this is not good at all.
Now the exit strategy will be to turn the reins to even uglier military thugs, but it will be ok, because they are going to be Iraqis.
I do remember that in EL Salvador the guys who ordered the killing of many, including priests and teachers were never brought to justice, I don’t think we should stand just there letting this happen again. Almost for sure, deserving targets will get it, but the Iraqi top dogs will target other people besides insurgents.
When you whoosh upon a star
Makes no difference who you are
When you whoosh upon a star, your dreams come truuuuue!
Regarding the substance of the thread: going into Iraq in the first place was fucking idiocy. Failing to partition Iraq into three or more sovereign nations based on ethno-religious boundaries was fucking idiocy. Lending Al Sadr credibility was fucking idiocy. Playing at some pretense of democracy within the present boundaries of Iraq was… well, you catch the drift.
The stuff you’re posting is, on the other hand, simply evil. The signature fucking idiocy is just not there. It’s pretty much inevitable when the coalition troops are gone, but I hope we wouldn’t permit this on our watch.
It does not; I took the title to mean “the last solution” as opposed to the more knee jerk version. In any case, the words have little to do with the reality: Our current administration will, IMHO, resort to any means necessary to acheive their ends, no matter how undesireable those ends may be.
I was going to post a reply to the OP, but then realised I didn’t have anything to say on the title of the thread, which is obviously more important 
I think its pretty fucking stupid to draw the conclusion that the Administration wants Iraq to be a xerox copy of El Salvador. Are the terms “comparison” and “analogy” completely foreign to you?
Yeah, here I was thinking I might want to discuss the alledged parallels between Iraq and El Salvador, forgetting that the whole point of such a discussion would be to have a page-long bickerfest over possible Nazi insinuation in the title.
Well, history shows that when you start training Third World forces to be death squads, they tend to take to it with a certain amount of, ummmm … enthusiasm. And imaginativeness, in the areas of rape and torture and so forth.
This is exactly the sort of shit we get for re-electing that fuckhead Bush. The American people told him torturing Arabs was A-OK with him and he’s running with it.
Dear god, let’s argue over semantics, sure, and ignore the real issue.
The substance of which is: the Bush admininstration wishes to exhibit policy in El Salvador as a model for Iraq, and in doing so glosses over a shitload of heinous human rights abuses, many of which were instigated or directly supported by the U.S. goverment.
Reason for concern, no? I don’t the OP’s use of hyperbole is out of place here, but let’s not argue about that.
Perhaps if the El Savador model is to be held up for admiration and approval, perhaps we could be permitted more information? The Reagan Papers would be a treasure trove of such information. Currently, as you may already know, those papers are witheld from scrutiny by Executive Order, though they were due to be released quite some time ago.
Its a shame, really, that Republicans are so blushingly modest about their accomplishments. They shun the kudos and bouquets that would necessarily be heaped upon them, if the true story of the Reagan Admin’s involvement with El Salvador should be made public. Why, a grateful nation would *surely * demand that Reagan’s visage be carved on Rushmore! Not to mention the glad cries of approval for Bush pere’s involvement. Who knows, might not a Nobel Peace Prize be in the offing?
But, no, our Tighty Righty brethren are entirely too self-effacing, too Lake Woebegon to “toot their own horn”. Here is an opportunity to display their stunning grasp of international politics, and the perspicacity and wisdom of St. Ronnie…and they demurely turn it aside.
Yep, after I posted I then expected some would prefer to discuss the title rather than the OP, but I already explained why I did go that way. Ravenman here somehow found even yet another way to avoid the issue.
Some people think semantics are the virtue when in reality, like Ravenman they only show that they have no good explanation about the designs of this administration regarding Iraq, semantics in this case is only used as an avoidance mechanism to deal with the issue, IMO in the case of Iraq, people who shield themselves with semantics are not chicken hawks, just plain chicken.
Elucidator, you just caused my Sarcasm-o-meter to explode, shame on you.
Please. There is no attempt at debate in the OP. It was simply another venting of anti-Bushism (which I am very sympathetic to), but gone completely overboard.
I have consistently opposed the war in Iraq, but there are a handful of reasons why this idea could be a good thing, provided that these militias do not end up doing the outrageous an unconcionable things that the Salvedorean death squads did. But the implication of the OP that this was the intent of the Administration – to form death squads to kill nuns and other innocents in Iraq – is beyond the pale. It’s so outrageous that it deserves comment.
If anyone wants to open a GD thread on this, I’ll be sure to join in, but I’m not about to debate a serious issue in the Pit, especially since the emotions here are already at a fever pitch.
What’s El Salvador like today, just out of curiosity?
It’s generally free and democratic, even though they’ve got problems with crime and corruption. But, the revolution has been over for about 10 years now, and FLMN has reconstituted itself into a political party.
Very, Very crowded.
Although there is the theory that Salvadorians are very prolific because of all the coffee… 
Right now, the ruling Arena party, that had connections with the death squads, seems to be breaking with the past, but the recent murder of the union trade guy is going to be a test of how far they have gone.
The revels, now the FMLN party, remain the one with most representation in the government, (but the two right wing parties still block them) The problem now is that they refuse to look to the future: they boneheadly choose a revel leader from the revolution to be the candidate in the last election, so, while being an unpopular decision, the current el presidente is sending troops to Iraq, it is simple: Arena owns a lot to the USA.
It was not when Cheney and then Rumsfeld began to make the boneheaded analogy, THEY did go overboard when reporters found out that it is becoming more than an analogy.
One kid once in El Salvador was wondering what the deal was, thanks to the media, and especially the media from the USA, I got the impression that both sides were at fault and I should not take sides, a threat to the family of the kid then convinced them that the best choice was to leave. However, many things the kid saw did not fit that view the media had; years later, thanks to the truth commission, he found out that more than 90 percent of the murders and crimes were committed by the army and death squads.
That kid was me. To this day, the guys that looked the other way (like Negroponte) are given positions of power in this administration, I say that fool me once, shame on them, fool me twice…
Well, there is one now:
And I have to thank BrainGlutton for it.