The Final, Ultimate, Supreme Bush v. Kerry Thread!

Great Debates
1

In the past year we’ve had countless threads in the GD forum that were related, in one way or another, to the decision American voters are going to have to make on November 2, 2004.

But we’ve never had a general, open-ended thread on the basic question: Who should be president of the United States 2005-2009, George W. Bush or John F. Kerry?

Now is the time! The debates are over and we’re in the home stretch!

Please phrase your responses in the form, “You should vote for Bush/Kerry because . . .” or “I will vote for Bush/Kerry because . . .” or words to that effect. Not, “I expect Bush/Kerry will win because . . .” Handicapping the race belongs in a different thread.

(And if you want to make a case for voting for Nader, Cobb or Badnarik, please start your own thread.)

Dopers, start your engines!

2

I will sleep on Wed, the day after elections no matter who wins…light of heart and happy to support whomever the people elect to lead the US for the next four years.

Bush won tonights debate IMO. But I believe in view of the NYY vs the BRS game that there were much lessmillions of viewers who normally would have watched the debate.

IMO, people have made up their minds prior to tonights’ debate. My prediction:

Bush will win by a landslide as far as electoral votes are concerned.

3

I will vote for Kerry, because I cannot, in good conscience, vote for Bush. I am completely opposed to almost everything that Bush stands for, and I think he’s leading this country in the wrong direction.

I cannot vote for a man who wants to change the Constitution to forbid rights to a segment of the population.

I cannot vote for a man who opposes scientific research on the basis of his personal moral code.

I cannot vote for a man who puts the interests of industry over the environment.

I cannot vote for a man who has little or no regard for America’s reputation abroad.

Lastly, but not finally, I cannot vote for a man who hates to read.

4

I will vote for john Kerry. He’s the only one of the two intelligent enough to thoroughly think through all possible consequences of major decisions and make those decisions based on reasonable predictions about outcomes, rather than inflexible notions about what should be done. If it comes time to decide whether we should start a war for instance, Kerry will carefully consider all important factors; whether we can win militarily, how socially people all over the world will react to it, whether the long term goals we set for the war can actually be met. Bush does not consider all these things.

Also Kerry understands the coming financial crisis relating to the retirement of the baby boomers and the huge amounts of money that the government is mandated to pay them through Social Security and Medicare. I do not believe that Bush is even aware of the true scope of this looming crisis.

5

I will vote for a man who understands that you do not fight a war on terrorism by doing things that help the terrorists gain more recruits than they ever ever dreamed of and that turns our traditional allies against us.

I will vote for a man who was brave enough not only to go off and fight in a war in a far-away land but also to come back and speak out against the war and help turn the tide so that others didn’t have to go and fight and die only because policymakers were too timid to do the right thing and too worried about saving face.

I will vote for a man who led investigations into government abuses, like Iran-Contra, and financial scandals, like the BCCI scandal, even when that led to his having to confront Democratic stalwarts like Clark Clifford; I will vote against a man (and his Vice President) who have made cronyism a part of public policy to an extent not since since God-knows-when.

I will vote for a man who understands that sometimes you have to side with the environment, even if it means making industry go beyond what they would be willing to do anyway.

I will vote for a man who understands that energy policy, environmental policy, and foreign policy are intimately tied together and that one must pursue commonsense forward-looking policies that strengthen us in all three realms rather than one which plays one off for a short term gain in the other.

I will vote for a man who understands that science and facts should be the most important inputs into the formulation of policy rather than believing that you decide the policy solely on the basis of your ideology and then sell it deceptively using whatever facts you can conveniently use as an excuse to implement it.

I could go on, but it is time for bed. Simply put, I will vote for John Kerry.

6

Oh yeah…One more I should not have left out:

I will vote for a man who recognizes that at a time when the top 1% of Americans have seen their real after-tax incomes increase by 201% in 21 years while those at the median saw only a 15% increase, there is a better use of our strained financial resources (particularly in what is supposedly a time of war) than giving the top 2% some $90+ billion per year in tax cuts!

[I’m sure I’ll think of more as I am trying to go to sleep but I’ll try to resist the urge to run back here and post them.]

7

There is very little I can add, except, I will vote for the man who thinks things through and can adapt or change (call it flipflop if you want) when the facts warrant it, instead of stubbornly sticking to failing ideologies or policies (steadfast resolute ad nauseum). I will vote for the man who does more than just give lip service (he pushed for Agent Orange legislation) as opposed to one who issues mandates with no funding (NCLB). I will vote for the man who includes everyone, instead of excluding them. I will be voting for the man who did NOT let Osama get away. I will be voting for Kerry. Big surprise, I know :slight_smile:

8

[Okay, okay, so I am too fired up now to sleep…]

I will also vote for a man who believes that the best way to get Americans to support his policies is to tell them the truth (or at least something approximating the truth) about these policies and his motivations for them.

9

Bush isn’t qualified for the job. It’s that simple.

We’ve grown accustomed to national elections being about ideology, not competence. It’s kind of taken for granted that if somebody’s running for president he actually has the necessary skills. We talk about what direction each of the candidates will take the country, what they stand for, what their values are.

What we don’t talk about is … can they actually do the job?

Back in spring 2003 when it was clear that the administration was beating the drums of war, I sadly resigned myself to the invasion of Iraq. I opposed the war at the time because I thought that in the long run the United States was ill-suited to the role of imperial power. But … on the other hand, I had to acknowlege that in terms of realpolitik having a permanent base of operations in the Middle East would give us greater control over the region’s petroleum reserves. It wasn’t a direction for America that I agreed with, but in geopolitical terms it wasn’t a ridiculous move to make. I thought the army would roll in, secure key locations, close the borders, produce a token amount of WMDs, and begin remaking the Middle East as a neoconservative paradise.

It never occurred to me that they would botch the operation.

But botch it they did. Weapon dumps weren’t secured. The borders weren’t closed. The Iraqi army was disbanded. Looting and lawlessness were allowed to consume the country.

Over the last year and a half it’s become more and more obvious that the Bush administration doesn’t know what they’re doing. It’s not that they’re doing something that I disagree with. It’s that they really don’t know what they’re doing. They’re screwing things up. Iraq is a mess. The budget is out of control. People are out of work. The country is scared.

I want a grown-up in charge again.

It’s not about ideology. It’s about simple competance. That’s what this election is all about.

10

I will vote for Kerry for many reasons, but the biggest reason is explained well in a letter that Republican Representative Doub Bereuter sent to his constituents before he resigned from Congress at the end of August after 26 years in that position.

I found the letter by following a link that I found in Doonesbury this week:

Our country stands a better chance of finding solutions with Senator Kerry than with a man who is as limited as the current President.

Actually, I am in awe of Kerry and more inspired by him that any Presidential candidate for whom I have cast a vote.

11

Look out - that concept failed dramatically for Dukakis.

12

Besides agreeing for the most part with all the other Kerry voters here (especially jshore’s excellent reasons)…

I’ll vote for the man whose only agenda is serving the American people.

I’ll vote for the man who’ll appoint Cabinet members whose only agenda is serving the American people.

I’ll vote for the man who’ll LISTEN to his Intelligence community and Military officers when he needs and asks for their input.

I’ll vote for the man who’ll realize he needs input, then ASKS for it, then intelligently considers their responses when deciding what to do.

I’ll vote for the man who will never forget that he’s our (Americans) employee.

I’ll vote for the man who’s smart and well-read.

I’ll vote for the man who’s kind, decent and honorable.

13

So, Equipoise, it sounds like you’re voting for Bush! Good on ya!

:smiley:

14

"The Final, Ultimate, Supreme Bush v. Kerry Thread"

I predict it won’t be.

:smiley:

15

Reading the rest of your post, it makes me question which “job” you had in mind, exactly.

Oh, how truly sad indeed.

Really? You thought all of that in your innocent arrogance?
Did you also one single shred of a second think about it that invading a sovereign nation does not mean that Hollywood just made an other fiction, when you watched the lightening of the skies while the rain of US bombs dropped on innocent people?
Do you want me to post a few links to the reality of what that firework causes in butchery of people on the ground?

How truly sad for you again. You really make me cry for you.
Did you ever think about it how it sounds when a child screams while burning alive while you are watching and enjoying that beautiful firework on your TV screen?

Lawlessness is the code of the criminals who invaded the sovereing nation Iraq.
If you feel so sad about it, why don’t you go there and tell it to the Iraqi people? Tell them you thought it was in your opinion a good idea that they were - and still are - butchered but that you find it sad that the US colonisation does not live up to the standards you think it should be.

Truly, I am once again deeply moved by your disappointment.
How scared do you think an Iraqi child is when the firework sets off and the bombs drop on the neighbourhood? How scared is an Iraqi child that survives this inferno and finds its relatives dead or maimed? Does that match your idea of scaredness?

Would you not like to grow up yourself first? This includes asking yourself how many Iraqis can’t grow up anymore because they are murdered by the invaders.

So you think that Kerry is the one who is going to invade some more nations you dream of invading while keeping Iraq colonized to your satisfaction, or how must I take this?

I don’t know if I should end this post the way I always do, by using the Arabic word wishing the reader peace. Clearly you only want peace and life for yourself, so most probably it is a waste.

Salaam. A

16

Why would you support no matter whom, just because he is president?
Salaam. A

17

I will be voting for Kerry. He may not be my ideal candidate for president but he has shown himself to have command of the facts, a willingness to compromise when necessary while making his positions clear. My only complaint about his resume is that it is too damn perfect - war hero, anti-war activist, small business owner/enterpreneur, prosecutor, Lt Governor, Senator (willing to tackle/investigate unpopular subjects like POW/MIA, BCCI, Contras).

The incumbent president has, as far as I can determine, the following list of priorities:

Reelection (regardless of consequences)
Ideology
Cutting taxes for his base (regardless of consequences)
The war in Iraq (regardless of consequences)
Missile defense
National Security/the war on terror
everything else

Aldebaran: I think Mad Sam’s point is more of a gesture of confidence in the republic and a willingness to work with the nation’s leadership, regardless of who that is, to achieve what is best for our country. That was essentially my feeling in 2000 - give the president the benefit of the doubt to start with.

18

I will not vote for Bush because I don’t believe “more of the same” will succeed in Iraq when it has failed so far.

I will not vote for Bush because the administration has shown itself, after a national disaster (9/11) and a war waged on poor information, incapable of accepting responsibility for those actions. Since they cannot accept responsibility on their own, the only choice we have is to force them to accept responsibility by voting them out.

But I’m not voting anti-Bush.

I will vote for Kerry because I believe he has a good idea on how to handle the tricky situation in Iraq.

I will vote for Kerry because I believe that he is mainstream enough to lead the American people.

I will vote for Kerry because he seems to be able to respect differences of opinion and faith.

I will vote for Kerry because he is a good speaker, something that is critical if we are to stay head negotiator in the world.

I will vote for Kerry because his opinions on abortion and scientific research seem to resonate, or at least closely approximate, my own.

To be honest, I have a job that isn’t in immediate danger of being lost, so the economic policies of both candidates aren’t a huge issue to me. I think human rights issues (abortion, not threatening to oppress a minority with a Constitutional amendment), the international issues (a strong speaker with the “novel” idea to restore the credibility of the US), and the Iraq issues are my biggest concern, because I think these are the issues that America truly faces in both the short and long term, and if they are not handled well or diffused properly, America will only get worse.

I’m voting for Kerry because Kerry should be president. It is not Kerry’s fault that an anti-Bush is needed, but it is to Kerry’s benefit that he will make a strong, respectable leader, and that’s why I’m voting for him.

19

OK, so far that’s nine Dopers for Kerry . . . and none for Bush; MadSam only said he predicts Bush will win, not that he will or anyone should vote for him; and Starving Artist just threw in a drive-by pro-Bush gag. Aldebaran seems to hate 'em both, but I don’t think he’s an American anyway.

20

Well, I didn’t just throw it in…I posted it at about 7 o’clock this morning.

And Aldeberan is most definitely not American. :wink: