The 'Flos Carmeli' Has Never Failed For Me ONCE

Great Debates
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Actually, some of you may not remember. Or some of you may have not been here even then. But I brought up this prayer and my devotion to it in 2007, when my father was in bad shape. Anyways, I do still believe in God. And if part of his attributes are human and personal, why the heck can’t you pray to him? That’s what I say.

Here:

Prayer of St. Simon Stock

Known as the FLOS CARMELI, the following prayer has for seven centuries been called a prayer to the Blessed Mother which has never been known to fail in obtaining her powerful help.

Prayer

Beautiful Flower of Carmel, most fruitful vine, splendor of heaven, holy and singular, who brought forth the Son of God, still ever remaining a pure virgin, assist me in this necessity! O Star of the Sea, help and protect me! Show me that thou art my Mother!

O Mary, Conceived without sin,
Pray for us who have recourse to thee!

Mother and Ornament of Carmel, pray for us!
Virgin, Flower of Carmel, pray for us!
Patroness of all who wear the Scapular, pray for us!
Hope of all who die wearing the Scapular, pray for us!
St. Joseph, Friend of the Sacred Heart, Pray for us!
St. Joseph, Chaste Spouse of Mary, Pray for us!
St. Joseph, Our Patron, Pray for us!
O sweet Hear of Mary, Be our Salvation!

Anyways, I should tell you, I am now less certain about the Blessed Virgin Mary. I was raised a Catholic, and I have been praying to Her all my life. But you know Mary (or Miryam was She was really known, when she was alive). Was just a humble peasant woman. The RC Church has Her assumed–and coronated!–in heaven. I know the RC Church says she appeared to 3 peasant children in Fatima, Portugal, in 1917. And why would these children lie? (Interesting story–but the poor kids literally went thru hell for their beliefs in the ‘apparitions’.) I don’t know about that. I mean, maybe an advanced alien appeared to them instead, as Mary. Makes no more or less sense than anything else to me.

But you know, I have a conclusion to that too. Prayer is prayer. And if I am praying to Mary, maybe God just hears it too. You know, IMHO, Mary is really just part of the feminine attributes of God. He does have many attributes, as I said. Something I just learned as I got older too.

Thoughts? And feel free to use the prayer yourself. As I said, I’ve used it many times when in distress. And it literally has never failed once for me. Hey, any Catholics on these boards? Chime in too.

:slight_smile:

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Shouldn’t this be in Great Debates, as “witnessing?”

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From GD’s description:

From the GD rules:

  • Witnessing and Religious Debates. Note that religious witnessing is entirely allowed in Great Debates.
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@Jim_B

I’m a convert to Catholicism. I studied a LOT, and learned as much as I could. I’ve drifted away from the Church (many reasons), but in my heart of hearts, I am a Catholic.

The “cradle Catholics” speak freely about praying to Mary, or praying to the saints. And that is one thing the Evangelicals like to criticize. Technically Catholics pray only to God. They do not pray to Mary, to saints, to statues, or to pictures. What Catholics do is to beseech Mary or the saints to pray with them to God.

Sound strange? Not really. People ask friends and relatives to pray for them every day.

The saints each had a special relationship with God. Many were killed for their beliefs. And now that they are in Heaven, it’s not too much of a stretch to believe their prayers along with your own will reach God’s ears. Mary’s relationship with God is even more special. She gave birth to the Son of God. Remember the first miracle performed by Jesus at the wedding in Cana? The servants told Mary they had run out of wine. She went to her Son, and asked for His help. He told her He wasn’t ready to begin His career. She probably gave him the “Mom look” because He did what she asked.

The miracle itself, of turning water into wine, was pretty spectacular. But the real lesson was what Mary told the servants. “Do whatever He tells you to do.”

I personally have a questionable relationship with prayer, especially the way most people utilize it. To me, people treat prayer like a little kid who sits in Santa’s lap and asks for a fire truck and a pony. It’s not some magic fix. Too often, people will not have a prayer answered, and so they lose faith in God.

When I pray, I ask for peace. I ask for peace for the sick, the dying, the troubled, and for myself.

~VOW

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define what “success” and “failure” would look like when you say this prayer.

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Which flower is she? I mean, I grew up on the Carmel, and as far as I remember, the most common wildflowers are Cyclamen persicum, Anemone coronaria and Cistus salviifolius. Is it one of those, or just the endemic flowers in general?

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I’m not clear what the debate here is: 1) It has never failed for you – OK, no way for me to debate that. 2) Prayer works – eh, I mean, not in any testable way, but again, if you feel it works for you, not sure what I would have to say about that.

Not trying to derail, but since you brought up prayer: How does a prayer “work”? Assuming the generally accepted Christian perception of and Omnipotent God, how would asking God for something have any impact on the outcome? Wouldn’t God already know how it’s going to play out?

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@BrianDime Actually that’s the reason why I originally put this in MPSIMS. I was just going to share the fact it always worked for me. I wasn’t gonna debate it. Oh, well though.

But I am quite serious. It never failed for me once. I’m talking factually. Not just in some abstract way. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Then try praying to Mary for winning the lottery next weekend and tell me how it worked out.

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Would you say it is more or less effective than praying My Country 'Tis of Thee? Have you attempted empirical studies? Maybe sent letters to a number of physicists and priests about it? When confessing sin, have you tried praying Oops, I Did it Again by Britney Spears?

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Until you answer these questions, it’s hard to know what to make of your OP.

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What do you pray for that makes it worth bringing up here?
By “works” do you mean that what you pray for actually happens, or do you mean that whatever happens turns out for the best?

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That is astonishing, and the best news I have heard in forever.

Listen: the war is Ukraine is awful. There are deaths every day, and tremendous suffering. And you’ve got a way to fix it.

Please use this prayer, and pray for an and to the war–not a gradual end, not a drawn-out ceasefire, but an immediate end. You’ve got the power: use it.

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I’m sure the prayer works every time you ask for the sun to set and water to be wet.

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A reasonable worshipper will only pray for the sun to set when conditions are favorable.

Joking aside, this is an essential problem (among many others) with any claim about the efficacy of prayer: if the worshipper believes that prayer works, yet they don’t pray for the end to atrocities, it calls into question the worshipper’s basic humanity.

What sort of person has the power to end war, and instead uses it to get a promotion?

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That’s always been my personal confusion about the Catholic practice of praying to saints for intercession- if God’s omipotent and omniscient, what’s the advantage of asking St. So-and-So to intercede on your behalf? He can hear your prayer just the same as some saint who died a couple of thousand years ago, and why should their prayers hold any more or less weight than anyone else’s?

It always struck me as a relic of historical social hierarchies and a reinforcement of the role of the clergy- sort of a parallel heavenly system, rather than letting everyone just pray straight to God. Letting people do that undermines the whole Catholic system in some ways, so I can see why they’d interpret things to set that sort of heavenly stuff up.

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It’s quite simple: God cares about some people more than others. Sure, he is omnipotent and could easily solve your problems, but why bother? He’s got more important people to worry about. Now, if you can get a saint on your side, that’s good news for you because God cares a lot about the saints, he’s much more likely to help you out if a saint up in heaven gives you their recommendation. Saints have different priorities than god too, so you have a better chance of getting someone who gives a toss about you if you pray to a saint.

Now I know what you’re saying, “Mr. Encyclopedia, that’s nonsense! God loves us all.” Yes, of course he does. His love for us is infinite and his grace is endless. But his patience? His attention span? Not so much. Just take a look in the bible if you don’t believe me, it’s full to the brim of people that God explicitly cared about more than other people.