gobear, hwo can you say that when the basis of Christianity is founded on the bible. If you take the bible out of Christianity what would you have, where would you go for answers. Yes im sure others could give you their input but how would their advice be any better then yours if neither of you have any basis for your advice. Im sorry but that statement about having the bible not within Christianity is not even logical.
I said no such thing. Where did I say, “Take the Bible out of Christianity”? Show me.
What I did say was that the Bible need not be regarded as inerrant in order for God to reveal His will for humanity through its words.
You fundies need to stop telling God what He can and cannot do.
It’s really pretty simple. H4E has consistently criticised homosexual relationships as being “sinful” and specifically forbidden by scripture. However, that same scripture also forbids divorce and defines remarriage as “adultery.” Since His is in her third marriage, she is living in a sinful “adulterous” relationship by the letter of the same law she judges others with.
I don’t think it’s “blackmail” in a debating forum, to warn her that she will not be let off the hook for hypocritical and inconsistent arguments.
When I say that I will remind her that she’s living “in sin,” I just mean that by her own logic she is living in sin, so the foundation of her argument is compromised. If the Biblical law is only cited selectively, and if the person citing that law does not apply it to herself, then it is only fair in a debate forum to point that out.
I think you’re confused. Christianity is not founded on the Bible. The Bible is founded on Christianity. Or are you saying that the book is more important than the religion?
Why is it that people (fundamentalists, usually) look at the Bible as some sort of instruction manual for salvation? It’s a literary work for crying out loud! Read it as literature and learn from the parables it contains. When you start thinking:
Step 1) Recognize Jesus as my personal lord and savior.
Step 2) Repent of my sins.
.
.
.
Step n) Hate homosexuality.
…you’re not doing yourself or your religion any favors.
Look within yourself for answers. If you truely believe in God, then let God tell you directly what He wants of you. Don’t drown out His voice by worshipping a book instead of Him.
And yes, I happen to be an atheist. But I have a lot more respect for people who actually think about their religion than I do for people who let a book or a preacher think for them.
Let me clarify. I don’t mean that Christianity came along before the Bible was written, only that how one reads and interprets the Bible should be based on the religion as it is currently practiced. The world has changed a lot since the Bible was written, and some of the things it states are no longer valid or useful.
Joe Random answered the question quite well, and thanks, Joe.
Purely and simply, Nomadic One, I am a Christian because I put my faith and trust in Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, and have taken Him as my Savior and Lord. The Bible informs me about Him; it’s not something that God mystically dictated verbatim, but the collection of works by a large group of men, inspired by Him, but containing their misunderstandings and mistakes as well as His word.
That is of course IMO – yours will differ. As to why I think this, I’ve spent nearly 40 years studying in and about the Scriptures. And for the last 21 of them, I’ve been in a personal relationship with my Lord.
And, among other things, I’m firmly convinced that He calls us to judge ourselves, not each other, and live lives based on His teachings (as reported in the Gospels; Paul, James, John’s epistles, the Old Testament, and the rest of it are commentary on what He commands, suitable for guidelines but not to be taken as His literal words). And I am also firmly convinced that He has called me – me personally – to a role of speaking compassionately of His love to the very men and women whom most evangelical Christians see as living hedonistic lives and trying to bring down “our Christian society” – the gay folks who seem to have a problem with your quoting Scripture to condemn them (especially since most of them know what Jesus said about the sort of people who do that sort of thing).
Eh, could be worse. Currently, I’m reading a book called Out of the Flames, about how John Calvin tricked Michael Servetus into debating him in Geneva, then doublecrossed him by having Servetus arrested and burned at the stake for publishing a book that denied the Trinity.
I know I’d feel nervous if I ever saw His4Ever with a book of matches.
Noting that Joe Random posted while I was composing my last post, here’s what I was referring to when I said he answered the question quite well:
Purely and simply, the Fathers in the early days of the church decided which books accurately depicted our Lord’s teachings and were not loaded with complete fabrications (as is, for example, the “Protevangelium of James”), along with those books which gave good advice to the churches, and established a canon of them to go with the Septuagint, the Old Testament as rendered into Greek.
For reasons too complex to go into, the Reformers threw out 15 books of the Septuagint to produce the present “inerrant” Protestant Bible – which, among other things, has that little quote His4Ever loves so much about whoever removing a part of “this book” (i.e., Revelation, but it’s usually quoted as though it meant the Bible as a whole) incurring damnation on himself.
Nomadic_One, Reactor and anyone else who reads here who believes in the inerrant Bible and a literal interpretation of that Bible, I have a question for you:
Considering what the Bible has to say about how women should remain silent (see below), what do you believe about His4Ever’s failure here to abide by those teachings? I am not looking for comments specifically about her, but rather about her actions here.
Reference:
**I Tomothy 2:11-12:
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” **
Another question:
If a woman, a recent convert, came to you troubled by these Bible passages, what would you tell her? How would you counsel her?
Joe buddy why do you think i joined this forum, because i was curious about what I believe and wanted others perspectaves and how they realated to mine (thanks dickey, lol yea its good). Ive learned alot ALOT since three months ago and every day learn more. Its fun to watch everyones perspectives as they relate to others and at times to dispute their standpoint on an issue. If this message board is used to fight ignorance, I think its a good place to start.
1Ti 2:11 -
Learn (μανθανέτω)
Comp. 1Co_14:35.
In silence (ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ) not sure if IE6 has that encoding to post that
See on peaceable, 1Ti_2:2. Rev. renders quietness; but the admonition concerns the behavior of women in religious assemblies. Comp. 1Co_14:34. The word is used in the sense of silence, Act_22:2 : with the broader meaning quietness in 2Th_3:12.
1Ti 2:11 - Let the woman learn in silence,… The apostle goes on to give some other instructions to women, how they should behave themselves in public worship, in the church of God; he would have them be learners and not teachers, sit and hear, and learn more of Christ, and of the truth of the Gospel, and to maintain good works; and he would have them learn in silence, and not offer to rise and speak, under a pretence of having a word from the Lord, or of being under an impulse of the Spirit of the Lord, as some frantic women have done; and if they should meet with anything, under the ministry of the word, they did not understand, or they had an objection to, they were not to speak in public, but ask their own husbands at home; seeing
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
This was the old law and in the old testament in which alot of it is to be looked upon as a historical records (as our beloved Polycarp said), we agree upon that bud, alot of the bible is a history lesson. History is good to look upon so we dont make the same mistakes as others did in the bible…such as those in the great flood, the worshiping of other gods, soddom and gomorrah, etc.
And thus, they were to behave
the smiley faces were not intended to be as so in the translations in my last post*
nor the, “And thus, they were to behave”, cmon mods let us edit so inarticulate people like me can edit them. 
< smiley supposed to be there.
Heh, leave it to me to get it right the first time, and then *uncorrect myself in my correction. :smack:
It never ceases to amaze me how people who will freely admit they are not well eduacted, thoroughly unaquainted with critical thinking and entirely presuppositional about their beliefs will stand like Custer arguing for their bigotry and suppoting it with their subjective interpretation of the millenias-old words of other ignorant men!
Reading the bible is the leading cause of atheism and I can attest to that!The books that would become the Bible were written at a time when most everybody except erastothenes(who deduced the shape and circumference of the earth around 2200 years ago) thought the earth was a flat disc, domed by a firmament or some equally inaccurate thing.The ancient cultists who would become known as christians literally believed that heaven existed in the clouds where man could surely never reach.
Yes, monotheism…in fact theism in general, is outdated.I think this is what Nietzsche meant by “God is dead!”.
No need to worry, I don’t play with matches, gobear.
You realize this is just spin, don’t you? The word translated as silence, [symbol]hsukia[/symbol], can also mean “tranquility” or “peace,” but it’s clear connotation in this grammatical context is “silence.” Paul told women not to speak in church, and not to teach or have authority over men.
The posted apologia is a perfect example of how some people will mine the original Greek for alternate definitions or loopholes if it seems to apply to their own behavior but will resist tooth and nail when the same approach is taken to alleged proscriptions against behavior they disapprove of.
Reactor, are you posting here just to get your Proselytizing Badge (which you need to make Celestial Eagle Scout), or are you actually trying to convert anyone to your viewpoint?
If it’s the former, then you’ve accomplished your mission: you’ve preached the word at us poor, misguided folks, told us we’re deluded and “don’t understand the Bible” when we didn’t cave in as easily as the people in the Jack Chick tracts do, and demonstrated what looks suspiciously like smugness and superiority while telling us we’re all hellbound for not accepting your (excuse me, “God’s”) word for the way the universe runs. Now you can go away feeling proud of yourself; after all, you’ve done what God told you to do and preached the Gospel, right? It’s not your fault if we’re too filled with the spirit of the Antichrist to listen.
OTOH, if you’re genuinely trying to convert anyone, you really need to raise your game. Most (if not all) of us have read the Bible, and while playing the “one true Scotsman” game is fun for a little while (in this case, saying that anyone reaching a different conclusion than you indicates a lack of understanding of the Bible), it gets tired really quickly. If you could argue your corner better, you’d get a much different class of responses to your posts. We’re not ignorant, we’re not idiots, and we’re not gullible. Start with that as a premise, and this will be a much more constructive discussion.
However, if denial and insults are what you prefer, we’ll happily continue the mockery. Your choice.
Im sorry you feel that way Cynic. 
jr8…
Who are supposed to be? The ringleader of the “Christian takedown” operation? You sound big and important, and I always listen to big and important people who have (now this IS amazing) have read the bible. Did you earn a scount badge for that one? Did anyone double check that you understood everything you read?
I argue fine. I don’t argue well late at night with 45 people all hounding me with the same basic questions every two seconds (that I know kids in my church have found the answer to just by reading the bible). Why don’t you all get together someday and write a list of christian takedown questions so I can answer them one by one? And btw, when you say,
“We’re not ignorant, we’re not idiots, and we’re not gullible.”
You just sound proud to me.
“or are you actually trying to convert anyone to your viewpoint?”
No, I’m on here for a holiday. I liked the look of the purple and white and thought “Well, as nice as Malta is this time of year…”
“you’ve preached the word at us poor, misguided folks, told us we’re deluded and “don’t understand the Bible””
Why don’t you quit patronising me. I didn’t say anyone was poorly misguided or deluded. I believe you’re wrong. That’s it. Why don’t you keep this as simple as it is? I’m here to comment, you respond. You not like-- you go to other thread.
GodlessSkeptic
“The ancient cultists who would become known as christians literally believed that heaven existed in the clouds where man could surely never reach.”
So? People had all sorts of wacky beliefs back then, but God still used them, just like he uses people like you now.
Perhaps if you didn’t spew ignorance, such as Catholics don’t know the Bible-you wouldn’t be mocked in such a fashion.