The fullness of the Godhead and salvation

Speaking of comparative religion, it may be interesting for somebody to look at this website:Religioustolerance.org. The particular page I’ve linked to discusses similarities between Jesus and other man-gods. It’s pretty interesting.

Nomad, one thing that I noticed earlier in the thread; you mentioned your “17 years” which I assumed was your age (perhaps I’m mistaken). Later you mentioned the incident with your pastor that occurred in 1975, I think? I know it was in the '70s. If you are only 17 then it occurred before you were born so your information is naturally second hand. I don’t mean to suggest that anybody lied and I’m sure they didn’t, but it is possible that over the years facts could have been distorted or exaggerated in people’s memories.

I only point that out because one of the things that happens all too frequently is people assume that something they’ve been told is completely true and factually correct, simply taking it on faith. Many people, on the other hand refuse to do that. We need evidence, whether of a modern “miracle” or of one that occurred 2000 years ago. One book that’s only self-referential isn’t enough. Neither is hearsay evidence.

Well, I can only draw my conclusions by some of the things I’ve heard him say. And some of those things are rather disturbing to me. Nuff said. If you find that harsh, I can’t help that. It’s not my intent, but I won’t be untruthful about what I believe either.

Bull.

Whatever you say. I know how things are here.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

HIs4ever, I’ll grant that you didn’t intend to be harsh toward Polycarp. I’ll also acknowledge that you’re right about your sig line. I read that website and it didn’t change my mind at all. I’ve already read refutations to nearly all the claims there. Please read the site I list above and let me know what you think.

Remember too that, although you have a certain, I have to say, narrow perspective on Christianity, that doesn’t make you the authority either (not that you claimed to be). I don’t agree with a lot of what Polycarp believes either, but I have read enough of his posts to feel that he has studied and thought about his religion and the bible.

Books can only possibly be as accurate as the last edit will allow them to be and the bible’s been through a lot of edits over the centuries.

His4ever, the BIBLE isn’t the Word of God.

Christ is.

God is not a book. He’s God.

Isn’t it interesting how some people use the word “know” to explain their delusions.

Sweetheart, if you truly didn’t mean to be harsh with someone, you wouldn’t be.

I suspect what you mean is “I’m being harsh, but I think it’s justified,” n’est pas?

Can you please explain this a little more for me?

His, that’s a fair statement. But I (obviously) believe myself to be doing the right thing in what I believe and say. Perhaps you might be willing to take the time to outline some of the issues that you’ve found you disagree with me on (other than the morality of monogamous homosexuals, where we’ve long since agreed to disagree) and I can respond on why I think as I do. I think it could be a good learning experience for both of us and perhaps for others as wll.

That’s not a challenge; it’s a request of a friend, in the interest of better mutual understanding and the greater glory of God.

Polycarp can others take place in this debate as well?

Of course! The invitation was directed to His because we’ve been friends and sparring partners on doctrinal issues for probably a year now. But you’ve brought some, uh, interesting perspectives to the board, and I look forward to discussing what you see as my errors or misinterpretations.

Nomadic_One:

Undoubtedly you’ll be annoyed again, but I’ll once more answer for you a question not directed to me.

Guinistasia is referring in part to the first chapter of the Gospel of John:

Great Trogdor! Sorry about hashing your name, Guin.

I don’t want to get into an ongoing debate, especially here. Of course, as you said, there is the homosexual issue which we both already know we disagree on. One of the other things is the way we look at the word of God, which isn’t the same. I’m accused of worshipping the Bible just because I believe it was written by God front to back. I don’t worship the Bible, I worship the God who wrote it and accept it as His word. If it’s not the authority in a Christian’s life, what is? Feelings? Experiences? I get the impression from you that the Bible needs to be reinterpreted to conform to our modern day society, culture, and beliefs. Well, we’re not supposed to change what it says to support what’s going on today. The Bible is supposed to change us, not the other way around. I don’t really agree with the statement someone made that we “should take it seriously, but not literally.” Why not take if for what it says? There are passages that make it plain that they’re symbolic, otherwise why not believe it means what it says? Including the Genesis account of creation. There’s nothing there that makes me think it’s symbolic or mythical. Am I an idiot for believing it really happened?

Anyway, everyone’s entitled to their views of course. Not everyone is going to see something the same way.

Nomadic_One, the Bible is the written word of God, Christ is the living Word. Many people are simply not going to believe the Bible is the word of God no matter what we say. Satan has used his “if you can’t beat em, join em” tactics very well in this world. He’s provided and endless number of religions and their scriptures so confusion reigns in many as to which is the true.
They’ve made their choices, just as we’ve made ours. Even if we don’t explain things adequately to their satisfaction and they seem to win the arguments, that in no way means they’re right.
It’s obvious to us that in our hands we have the written word which tells us that Jesus is the living word. See John 1:1,14 and Revelation 19:11-16. Of course, they’ll say we’re using circular reasoning, using the Bible to prove the Bible. So be it. No matter how many people put forth evidence for the reliability of the Bible as God’s word, many are not going to believe. They make their choice, as we’ve made ours.

[goodcall]

[/goodcall]

What reason do you have to think that other religions are a product of Satan? I highly doubt that there’s any sort of Biblical reference for that.

Don’t you think it’s possible for other religions to develop without diabolical origins?

I find it interesting that one can very often tell how much of a fundie someone is by how often they invoke Satan to explain things that somehow contradict their religion. I once knew a guy who claimed that dinosaur fossils and C-14 dating were satanic in origin.

You do understand that circular reasoning is useless in any argument, don’t you? This isn’t a case of “we don’t agree with you, so we’ll claim circular reasoning to ridicule your position”. Not at all. Circular reasoning is never a valid argument for any position. And any argument using circular reasoning will be considered invalid.

Polycarp:

“Badchad, the purpose of this board is to fight ignorance – one’s own included! Therefore, I will expect you to take all my posts, analyze them, and point out and correct the errors in them, right here in this thread.”

Na, I’ll just call you on what I think is your most bothersome hypocrisy. Anything more and I’ll have to give you my hourly rate.:wink:

So Jesus hands down a bunch of commands that are quite literally impossible to fulfill without divine help – as illustrations of our own imperfection, and as ideals towards which we should strive. And yes, badchad illustrated my imperfection with a set of these ideal commands.

No I think you miss the point. It’s not that you can’t live up to Jesus’ commands, its that you won’t even make the effort. In fact if I list a few of them that Jesus said but which don’t mix with what are becoming the predominate values of our culture I would wager that you wouldn’t argue in favor of Jesus. Rather you would start coming up with your talk of analogy, mistranslation fabrication etc.

For the sake of argument I’ll try to pretend that Jesus didn’t endorse the law or be one with the god who wrote the law, and will just focus on what Jesus allegedly said directly.

I guess we can be sure that the “give to them who ask stuff” is out in your book, since that requires genuine sacrifice rather than the intangible easy stuff like loving people. How about some of these:

Do you think it would be wrong for a woman to divorce a mentally and physically abusive husband assuming no infidelity?

Do you think it is wrong if a man were to marry the above mentioned divorced woman and provide a good safe home for her and her children in a healthy relationship?

Do you think prayer in church is wrong?

Do you think it is wrong to give alms in church?

Do you think it is wrong whistle at a hot babe?

Do you think it is wrong for people to save a portion of their income for emergencies or for retirement?

Do you think one should hate/abandon their family to follow Jesus.

Do you think slaves should obey their masters?

Do you really think people should burn in hell for honest disbelief (and please don’t give me that cop out about heaven being real but hell another allegory, unless you have something better than wishful thinking to back it up).

You are welcome to take the Bible, read uncritically as a handbook, as your guide, and to quote Moses and Paul to justify judging others. And to reject any of Jesus’s teachings…

You are welcome to read the bible “thoughtfully” as only you can and to quote Moses and Paul when they agree with you and rationalize away all the times they don’t, just as you do with Jesus. Sure you can fool a lot of folks with this, but for beleivers and nonbeleivers alike who have actually read their bible, it’s pretty obvious.

And we’ll see who gets it right. If Czarcasm has the right of it, it won’t matter, because when we die, the neuroelectrical network that comes up with all this stuff will shut down, and we’ll be nothing whatsoever except a memory.

If Czarcasm is right it will matter plenty because you wasted a lot of your short life worrying about such trivial things as sin and guilt or spinning your debating wheels while fishing in a pond without fish. When you could be doing much more important things like working overtime, managing your portfolio, taking vacations, retiring younger because you invested 10% of your income in stocks and bonds instead of tithing, porn, orgies and other fun stuff. If the fundies are right then you miss all that fun stuff and still burn in hell. Wouldn’t that be funny. Of course as you mentioned you could be right. What are the odds of the latter? I say 0.0.

<butting in>

badchad, you just lost me (and I have been paying attention…)

Why, now, is Polycarp going to burn in hell, if the fundies are right? Refresh me on exactly who goes to hell, and who doesn’t, in the fundie worldview. Thanks.

<butting out>