I just ordered a copy.
I live in a big city and I tend to wander around by myself a lot. I’ve never been seriously bothered by anyone, but often I’ll feel nearly sick to my stomach with worry when I find myself walking down an empty street or sitting on a sparsely filled subway train. This book sounds helpful.
[QUOTE=dangermom]
I go walking around my neighborhood at night and never feel worried, since it’s a perfectly fine area. I didn’t when I lived in a different area (where I was routinely hassled in daylight hours), so it’s all about where you are.
But the book’s whole point is that you shouldn’t be afraid all the time; you should be going about your business and paying attention to your feelings about what’s going on.
[/QUOTE]
I live in the city. In my neighborhood, I am a five minute walk from where it is considered, “a nice, safe area”. To get to that place, for an evening stroll, I have to walk through five minutes of what is considered a “very bad area”.
I sometimes get afraid when walking at night, but never have I let the fear stop me from enjoying night walks. I simply use the fear to keep me on my toes. I listen to music, but I keep my eyes peeled, and often scan 360 degrees around me.
I stay away from hedges and dark cuts, even if it means walking in the street at certain points. I keep my stern, hard face on, and I carry protection. (not a gun).
All of this comes naturally to me. I don’t ever consider that it is something I have to remember to do in order to keep safe.
But there are times when my fear kicks in…a man will walk too closely behind me for too long.
Once, when I was 18, walking home from a house party, a drunken, staggering old man changed directions to begin following me down the street. I broke into a sprint immediately. It could be that he simply forgot something at home and was turning around to get it…he hadn’t said anything to me as of yet, but I knew in my gut that he meant me harm, and I took off running. Sure enough, he began to run after me. I ran to the end of that dark street and right into traffic at the adjoining, busier street. I jumped in the car with 3 complete strangers who stopped for me, and they took me to an all night gas station. I walked home from there.
I am very interested in reading this book. Gonna pick it up Friday when I get paid.
Also highly recommended is “Protecting the Gift”, same author. Again, it should be mandatory reading for all new parents. One of the things they tried for the book was approaching mothers in playgrounds, and asking if their kid knew not to get into a stranger’s car. Of course they all said yes. Then the researchers managed to get something like 90% of the kids into the car willingly within 2 minutes. Very scary.
Things we took away from it, and taught our little spud were:
If you’re lost, go to another parent for help, don’t go to a policeman (policemen are hard to discern for kids, and are easily mixed up with security guards, delivery people, and other uniforms who receive no background checks.
If we get separated in a store, stand in one place and yell for me.
Talk to strangers. Most strangers are nice people. We watch her closely, but from a distance. Afterwards, we often discuss it, especially if there were any warning signs that the stranger might have been questionable. We are trying to get her to develop an instinct for warning signs that people may not have her best interests at heart.
If someone says ‘don’t scream’, then scream your little motherfuckin’ lungs out. It’s a hard one to teach without scaring the kid, or feeling like an overprotective weenie, but sometimes we play the “You’ll never escape” game. We hold her tight, and she has to wriggle to escape, and scream for help. She loves it. Whether it would translate to a real life situation, I don’t know.
Always trust your gut. If you feel unsafe or scared, then run, scream, find people.
Another thing for parents is Escape School. It teaches kids, among other things, who to go to for help (try to find a woman with a child) and even how to break a stranger’s grip (simple twist and turn, but effective, even for a small child.)
I remember one incident…I was traveling from Florida to SC, and I had to stop at at ATM around midnight. I pulled into the bank parking lot, and there were two cars. One person was at the ATM, and one was just sitting in the car.
The person at the ATM left, and I’m waiting in my car for the other person to do something…go to the ATM or leave. He doesn’t. He just sits there.
I found this odd, so I left and found another ATM. For all I knew he could have been balancing his checkbook, but it was dark, I was alone, and I was about to go get some cash. I did not feel safe, so I left.
I wonder if this is the same feeling that sometimes tells me I have to stop at the dogpound on the way home from work, because the right animal is there and needs me. Most times I can just drive past and not think too much about it ( although I want to rescue them all), and other times it’s like there’s a voice just saying, “He’s waiting for you. Just stop and check.” Any wonder why I have 5 dogs and 4 cats?
Seriously, though, I do take it to heart if me normally friendly dogs dislike someone. They may have just put on the wrong cologne or something, but if my dogs are fearful or aggressive, I leave.
StG
de Becker covers that too…he believes the pet is picking up on your trepidation and vocalizing it.
[QUOTE=ivylass]
de Becker covers that too…he believes the pet is picking up on your trepidation and vocalizing it.
[/QUOTE]
And pets can be “bought” off with a dog treat or two…
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
And pets can be “bought” off with a dog treat or two…
[/QUOTE]
In fact, what worked best when the Mythbusters tried to get past a guard dog was the old “juicy steak” trick.
[QUOTE=ivylass]
I asked Ivylad if he’s ever walked down a dark street at night by himself and felt nervous. He looked at me like I was crazy and said, “No.” I told him I do, all the time, and he seemed very surprised.
[/QUOTE]
??? 
Are you sure Ivylad wasn’t thinking you’re crazy for walking down dark streets at night by yourself?
It would be difficult for me to think that doing something like that wouldn’t make the majority of people nervous, regardless of gender.
-FrL-
I would think that whether they truly felt fearful or not, men would be less likely to admit to it. After all, there is definitely an idea out there that it is unmanly to express fear.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
???
Are you sure Ivylad wasn’t thinking you’re crazy for walking down dark streets at night by yourself?
[/QUOTE]
No, his response was a surprised “Really?” I don’t normally walk around at night by myself, but I have found myself in situations (dark parking garages, leaving work late at night) that make me a bit uneasy.
[QUOTE=StGermain]
I wonder if this is the same feeling that sometimes tells me I have to stop at the dogpound on the way home from work, because the right animal is there and needs me.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not the same thing at all.
Your feeling that you have to stop by the dog pound is probably just a way to give yourself “permission” to go there because you want to go to the dog pound. And that’s okay. But it’s not the same.
deBecker’s point is that many of the “gut feelings” and “intuitions” that we have are nothing of the sort. They’re logical conclusions derived from cold hard FACTS. And we need to know how to recognize those fact-based conclusions and act on them.
Ivylass’s description of her trip to the ATM is a perfect example of what deBecker is talking about, as is Zsofia’s creepy library patron. In both cases, they had good solid reasons to feel uncomfortable.
Green Bean - My first example was somewhat tongue in cheek. Although the urge to visit the pound certainly does wax and wane. And really, although the library patron and the ATM person set off internal alarms, there’s no evidence that anything hinky really was going on. The library patron may be very socially inept, or have a disorder that means he doesn’t react in socially convential ways, and many times I sit in my car at the ATM filling out the deposit slip or looking for my card. It’s often really quite harmless. I agree that being aware of your surroundings is a good idea, but being anxious because someone is different skews your perspective of the world around you, IMHO.
StG
[QUOTE=ivylass]
No, his response was a surprised “Really?”
[/QUOTE]
Ivylad protests too much.
-FrL-
[QUOTE=StGermain]
Green Bean - My first example was somewhat tongue in cheek. Although the urge to visit the pound certainly does wax and wane. And really, although the library patron and the ATM person set off internal alarms, there’s no evidence that anything hinky really was going on. The library patron may be very socially inept, or have a disorder that means he doesn’t react in socially convential ways, and many times I sit in my car at the ATM filling out the deposit slip or looking for my card. It’s often really quite harmless. I agree that being aware of your surroundings is a good idea, but being anxious because someone is different skews your perspective of the world around you, IMHO.
StG
[/QUOTE]
The part where he followed my coworker almost all the way home is pretty convincing (I don’t mean he happened to be behind her on a main road; she took several turns and he stayed behind her. He had a distinctive broken headlight, BTW.) I think I heard that they did actually pick him up on outstanding warrants, but I wouldn’t swear to it and this was probably five years ago.
[QUOTE=StGermain]
… And really, although the library patron and the ATM person set off internal alarms, there’s no evidence that anything hinky really was going on. The library patron may be very socially inept, or have a disorder that means he doesn’t react in socially convential ways, and many times I sit in my car at the ATM filling out the deposit slip or looking for my card. It’s often really quite harmless. I agree that being aware of your surroundings is a good idea, but being anxious because someone is different skews your perspective of the world around you, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]
In the ATM example–it makes no difference whether there was actually anything hinky going on. The way the person was behaving in that context showed that there was a higher-than-normal chance that he wasn’t there on normal bank business. He wasn’t rummaging around or writing something, which as you point out, would have been “normal.” She said he was just sitting there. She wasn’t being “anxious because somebody was different.” That’s just silly.
And your comments about the possibility that someone might be socially inept or have a disorder show that you’re missing the point. If someone does have problems understanding societal norms, I feel for them, and I might well be willing to be friendly with them in most circumstances. But a person who has a “disorder that means he doesn’t react in socially conventional ways” is not someone who I’d want hanging around my work at closing time or who I’d want to encounter in a bank parking lot at midnight.
You need to read the book. deBecker explains it better than any of us could.
[QUOTE=StGermain]
I agree that being aware of your surroundings is a good idea, but being anxious because someone is different skews your perspective of the world around you, IMHO.
StG
[/QUOTE]
You know, I’d rather overreact and have to drive a couple of miles to another ATM for no reason, rather than underreact and put myself in a position of opportunity for some predator. I don’t go around in a bubble of anxiety…but I know now it’s okay to take a step back and say “No, this makes me uncomfortable, and I’m going to remove myself from the situation.”
There’s a reason the gazelles who prick up their ears and run when they hear a rustling in the grass survive. Sometimes it’s just a turtle, and sometimes it’s a lion. Either way, you last another day.
[QUOTE=ivylass]
You know, I’d rather overreact and have to drive a couple of miles to another ATM for no reason, rather than underreact and put myself in a position of opportunity for some predator. I don’t go around in a bubble of anxiety…but I know now it’s okay to take a step back and say “No, this makes me uncomfortable, and I’m going to remove myself from the situation.”
There’s a reason the gazelles who prick up their ears and run when they hear a rustling in the grass survive. Sometimes it’s just a turtle, and sometimes it’s a lion. Either way, you last another day.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly - in the book he points out that women are at risk sometimes because we don’t want to be rude, so we don’t tell somebody, “No! I don’t need your help and I don’t want you following me!” or we don’t get out of the elevator when somebody we don’t like the looks of gets on, because we don’t want to offend people.
I’m afraid this thread may be making some of the “What does “creepy” mean, and why does everybody think I’m it?” thread people upset - sorry, guys, you may not want to strangle me and cut me up on a pile of hooker skins, but you’ll just have to understand that in some situations I may respond to the cues you give off and act accordingly.
This thread made me want to read the book again, so I went over to the shelf…and it’s gone. Dangit, I must have given it away or something, what was I thinking? Every time I get rid of a book, I need it 6 months later, and yet I keep trying to give away a few books. When will I learn? Anyway, now it’s on hold at the library.
[QUOTE=StGermain]
Green Bean - My first example was somewhat tongue in cheek. Although the urge to visit the pound certainly does wax and wane. And really, although the library patron and the ATM person set off internal alarms, there’s no evidence that anything hinky really was going on.
[/QUOTE]
I used to teach self-defense, including women’s self-defense.
One of the most important lessons I taught was also one of the most difficult for people to understand and accept.
Avoiding a situation because you get a bad vibe from it does not hurt anyone. This is not rude. You don’t have to apologize for it, and, as de Becker makes clear, you should never let anyone talk you out of your intuitions.
For heaven’s sake, I am 200 pounds, a weightlifter, and a black belt. I was walking on the sidewalk on a street near my downtown, and I spotted a guy hanging around about a half-block ahead of me. And I got the danger ping from him. No idea why, but I did. And I turned and went back, walked a block up, and took a busier street.
Who did I harm by doing that? Assume the guy was completely harmless. So? How is his life diminished by the fact that I did not walk past him?
No decent man is going to be offended by a woman regarding him with caution. If he is, then the chances are good that he meant you harm, and you foiled him.
Regards,
Shodan