I remember a few episodes ago Chidi, the professional ethical philosopher, said that “it’s always wrong to lie” and even I thought, “what if the Nazis come and ask where the Jews are hiding?”. Did that objection just slip his mind? I would have thought that sort of situation, like the trolley problem, was his bread and butter. Anyway, besides that, he seems like he has the “do good things because they’re good and not for any reward” thing in the bag.
So I wonder if this whole show has been some sort of purgatory for the humans (or maybe just Eleanor and Jason) all along, to help them grow spiritually, before they’re allowed into the real good place. And the particular combination of people are chosen so that they help make each other better people or something. Though the memory wiping seems to dampen that theory a bit. And maybe there is something to that whole “soul mate” thing after all. And then there’s Janet. To be honest I really have no idea where this show is going next.
To be clear, I’m not saying Chidi with his rigid Kantian morality would lie in that situation. I think one should, though. Maybe this is why every moral philosopher is in Hell? (Assuming Michael wasn’t lying about that just to torture Chidi.)
Well, if one’s ONLY basis for action (of any kind) is knowing what the consequences will be, then no one would or could ever act.
So I don’t think the objection you state would work as an ethical rule (and neither would any other proposed rule that depended on knowledge of the future).
But, heck: I could be wrong!
(Sounds as though we need a ‘philosophical concepts inspired by watching The Good Place’ thread.)
It’s been many years since I studied Kant, and I wasn’t a fan of his even at the time, but IIRC that’s not why Kant was opposed to lying. He believed that lying was always wrong because he considered even seemingly harmless or benevolent lies to be damaging to society. Deceiving a murderer wasn’t the problem in Kant’s view. The problem as he saw it was that a productive society where people interact with one another in a rightful manner requires that we be able to take others at their word. Lying, even with good intentions, undermines this trust.
FWIW, in most situations Kant didn’t believe that other people had any particular right to the truth. You could ethically refuse to answer a question you didn’t want to answer. It was the act of deception that Kant was opposed to, not keeping information private.
IIRC some have argued that Kant’s point wasn’t so much that one should never ever lie under any circumstances, it was more about taking responsibility for the consequences of one’s lies – including unforeseen consequences.
Fair enough, but problems with the idea that ‘any act of deception is damaging to society’ are easy to find. For example, if a terminally-ill person gets a makeover–but winds up still looking less-than-attractive, is it damaging to society to compliment them on their appearance in kind terms?
(So where would a thread on this belong? Great Debates?)
I like it. I couldn’t really get into at first because I just wasn’t buying Kristin Bell in the main role. For the first several episodes it seemed like it was written for Owen Wilson.
I think it’s funny, and it’s cool they are hitting on some philosophical themes in an easily digestible way.
As I said, I’m not a fan of Kant’s, and plenty of people who know more about philosophy than I do have argued against his position on lying. However, your example is one where I’d actually agree with Kant. I can understand the temptation to lie in such a situation, but to do so is at best patronizing and at worst is impeding the other person’s ability to make informed choices.
You don’t have to say “Frankly, you look like you’re at death’s door and all the makeup in the world isn’t going to cover that up” even if that’s what you really think, but there’s probably something about the makeover that merits a sincere compliment. If the makeover itself was a total disaster, you’re not doing the other person any favors by lying about how great they look.
I think this is in many ways a moral failing worse than a white lie. It’s what makes religion possible, and The Good Place is an attack on those varieties of cheap platitudes of religion. It’s what George Burns mocked when he said, “Sincerity - if you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
