Why because the south and Midwest don’t vote liberals ever and west coast don’t vote conservatives.
Where Canada swings from liberals to conservatives and some times NDP.
Where the US is locked in region vote and by growing numbers by year 2050 there will not be any conservatives ever in power.
The conservatives are freaking out that if Trump did not get in and restore the past the conservatives will never get in again or get voted in ever.
The meaning of liberal and conservative in the US is very different than the meaning in Canada.
So Ontario could be liberal next year and conservatives the year after same with other places in Canada. The US in the south and Midwest will never be liberal and California will never be conservatives.
So not like Mississippi will be liberal some years and some years be conservative.
So the American democracy is really over and base on popular vote conservatives will never get in power ever again and that not base on the trend by the year 2050 they will never get voted in again.
This is pushing the conservatives to the far right.
And keep in mind Canada Conservative party is more liberal than Biden and Obama.
And in Canada and the UK if you say racist or bigotry stuff on the internet you go to jail. And open carry in the UK or Canada will put you in jail .
The US is a very different country than any first world country.
There was lot of white nationalist that came out that was forbidden topic and no politician would dare talk of fear of being viewed has some one from loony bin and get kicked out. Trump got all these people out that where boiling in their home not dare to say these things.
These white nationalists fear by the year 2050 white people in the US will only make up 40% than 60% or 70% now.
So they are running wiled on the street than you also have the conservative just bit right that not white nationalist but fear the days of conservatives are going to be over and moved to the far right now.
This is big mess and will not be fixed but get much worse.
Well that is the thing if say Biden took more centrist view allowing legal immigrants well not allowing illegals and support of border wall and ICES. Not put 100 day hold on deportation but say I support deportation.
But allowing immigrants and refugees in well higher numbers than say Trump but not too high where it my be viewed as the liberals pushing it well than you may not had right get so crazy and lead to those riots.
I think the idea that the left is moving out toward a more extreme position is speculative, there will be some who do move that way but as a whole I don’t actually think this is happening.
However…one thing that is definitely happening is greater committment, such as getting more voters registered and returning ballots, learning how to use and manage information and a much more orgnanised approach to videoing incidents at flashpoints.
This is not moving to extremism, this is using the existing lobby structures, the Democrats are also now far more likely to be vigorous in challenging illegal impositions by state legislatures and enforcement - again this is not extremism, it is using the law.
I can imagine that its possible to conflate increased activism and use of law for moving toward a more extreme view - I simply disagree, exercising your rights is not extremism.
Not using the same tactics to achieve the same ends. That’s not what I am saying. Neither the left or the right want the “end”. They don’t have the goal of fascism. It’s what happens if they continue down this road.
My hypothesis is that it is a result of your election system. Winner takes all breeds a two party system. It diludes opinions towards polarising ones instead of compromising ones. The inevidability there is a divide.
Of course. But you pick your battlefield. You can’t fight the same battle over and over again. It has move to a different front even if it is the same struggle over and over again. But no matter what the struggle is really about, like @asahi pointed out:
In case anyone is wondering, as the previous post indicates, bj0rn is the same poster as Rebj0rn. With moderator assistance, he was able to retrieve his original username, and is not socking. The Rebj0rn name has been deactivated.
I agree. I don’t see much evidence that moderate Democrat voters are moving in great numbers out to the Far or Extreme Left. However, the social equality and civil rights Overton Windows are moving to the Left in the US and have been for some time. They move too slowly but they do shift as is their wont.
From the perspective of the Right this appears as though “ordinary Democrats” (like Joe Biden) are moving to the Far Left and have been for 50 years. To them, those ever-radicalizing Democrats are the reason America isn’t Great anymore.
When you’re standing still or even going backwards, the normal, measured pace of social progress appears to move like a rocket.
It’s basic Relativity but the Right aren’t big fans of Einstein, I gather.
The thing is the UK, Europe or Canada never experience race war and slavery like the US did or civil rights movement like the US did. Or experienced confederate civil war or KKK.
And well along with people who fear by the year 2050 white people will be only 40% is disaster ready to happen.
Than factor in democratic party are moving more to the left on immigration does not help.
I totally agree here. The point is how few and noisy they have to be to get a reaction and move the norm. The shift is usually gradual, but given enough momentum things can change quickly. We have seen that in various countries around the world.
What I am saying is that there is a portion of both the left and right moving out into different extremes that both can result in fascism, or at least fascist tendencies; limits on freedom of spreech, privacy, etc …
That’s fair, and I’m sure German Neo-Nazis do that too.
But when I look at Germany, I see a nation that did absolutely atrocious things in the past, and as a nation has reckoned with those things and tried to move forward. When I look at the US, I see a nation that also did horrible things, like slavery and the genocide of the native Americans*, but which never reckoned with its past and so cannot move forward.
The “Lost Cause” narrative (and the “Stolen Election” spinoff we see nowadays) is in many ways reminiscent of the “Stabbed in the Back” narrative of interwar Germany. Was the German narrative fed in part by the harsh terms of the treaty of Versailles? That’s what is taught in American World History courses, but is it true? If Germany had gotten more generous peace terms, would their economy not have collapsed somehow? That seems like a dubious notion considering how the economic downturn was global. I think ANY terms would have been seen by the German people of that era as unfair because the actual terms of the treaty weren’t the issue; the issue was that many Germans refused to accept that they could have lost the first World War.
By that same token, the issue isn’t that people have their speech restricted from whining about how they actually won the election. The issue is that they refuse to accept the fact that they lost it in the first place.
I’m not referring to the great dying off of the native American tribes that happened when Europeans first arrived in the New World. That was horrible, but also inevitable through an accident of history and epidemiology. But OTOH the US once it became a nation made a very concious effort to destroy native American tribes as entities with any real power, and to destroy their culture within the US.
However, the perspective of the Right is wrong. That isn’t what is happening or has happened. The US was in substantial ways farther left 50 years ago than it is now. The swing has been toward the right, and then, the extreme right, and then, the falling off the edge of the world into an abyss of bizarro right. Biden has not changed his fundamental positions, substantially, in his decades in office. He was a moderate then, he’s a moderate now; what has changed is the perspective of the right.
Nixon actually proposed plans for universal health care and noodled with the idea of an experimental guaranteed basic income program, and he actually imposed wage freeze and price control measures. Richard Mother*ing Nixon! These were actually the causes célèbres for what became the modern Conservative movement which dragged American politics so far to the right that the supposed ‘Radical Liberal’ President Bill Clinton promised to “end welfare as we know it” and signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, which as it sounds was a plank of Gingrich’s “Contract With America”.
In comparison to every industrial democracy in Western Europe, the United States is to the extreme political right, even compared to fairly stodgy nations like the United Kingdom or Portugal and so far away from what economically and socially progressive (and inarguably successful by virtually any index) nations like Denmark, Germany, or the Netherlands consider to be functional social democracies that nonetheless have as high or higher indices of personal freedoms, entrepreneurial enterprise, educational attainment, and vocational mobility. The sob story that the United States has become “too liberal” is pure Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch-fueled propaganda with no basis in fact.
We are prevented from joining the small list of highly developed nations because of an enduring belief that government can never work for its people. At best, the thinking goes, it can only “stay out of the way.” And this thinking continues despite the evidence of just the opposite being true.
This battle will continue for the foreseeable future as Trumpists utilize the unrepresentativeness of our election systems and voter suppression to maintain minority rule by the stupids. We will have to punish them over and over again at the polls before they are no longer a threat to civilized society.