This rant is in reference to this thread, which I started yesterday asking for advice on a job hunt situation.
Today I got my response back from the potential employer, looking to fill a position that would have been a dream job for me.
I didn’t get the job.
The woman told me that the reason why I was passed over was because the person they hired had more experience.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Experience. I know that phrase. It’s the paradox that has been biting me in the ass for the last 18 months in my efforts to find a permanent job. I can’t get the job without experience, and I can’t get the experience without the job. How in the blue fuck am I supposed to get the experience all the employers crave without at least one of them believing me when I tell them that I can do the job? The question of whether or not I can actually do the job has become irrelevant.
I’m tired of it. TIRED OF IT. Why did I bust my ass in college and graduate school just to get ignored later on? Why did I bother carefully choosing the internships and fellowship so that I can get exactly the kind of experience they were looking for? Why did I bother getting into this field in the first place, when no one out there will give me a chance? I’ve always believed that if I worked hard I would be rewarded; now I’m seeing that none of that matters. Effort doesn’t count; only the number of years you’ve been doing it.
If I don’t find a job before the end of this month, I’m unemployed, and being ignored and passed over for a year and a half is getting really fucking old.
I know exactly how you feel. Everyone at the place I’m currently collecting a paycheck from has a degree in fields that they can’t get jobs in at the moment so we’re all biding time until we find something more suitable.
That reminds me of a couple years ago, when I was in high school and all my friends and I had just gotten our licenses and wanted cars. (I was lucky, in that I was able to buy the car off a friend of my parents’ and the folks gave me a no-interest loan for it. Other friends had to face reality and buy their own cars.) We lived in a rural area with no employment opportunities except in the next town over - you’d have to travel between five and ten miles to work - so there was this paradox: "I need to get a job so I can buy a car. But I need to buy a car so I can drive to my job. But I can’t get the car until I have the job, but I can’t get to the job until I have the car, which I can’t afford until I get the job - " ::bamf:: head explodes.
I’m going to have to start worrying about this soon, myself. In a year or two I’m taking time off from college to gain Texas residency so I can finish my degree over in Dallas and not pay out-of-state tuition… so I’ll need to get myself a job full-time to pay my rent… so I’ll have to face the paradox again! Ah!
What really pisses me off is that I spent much of the last few years doing serious academic research, involving real programming, research, experimentation, documentation, etc. I’ve been published in leading journals, gave talks at leading conferences, etc. I go to apply for jobs and am told that even though I was paid to do all this, and worked long weeks, did it for someone else, produced something useful, etc., “academic experience isn’t real experience”.
Meanwhile, my friends worked at those dot-com comapanies that have some ridiculous premise (“do your laundry over the Internet!”) and burned through money faster than francium. I’d visit them at work and instead of doing worthwhile things, they’d chase each other through the offices with NERF dart guns. Yet they get to list this job on their resume with their ‘responsibilities’, and recruiters are happy. This is considered real experience???
“Start low, do exceptionally well, and get the fuck out as soon as you get the chance.” This is a good piece of advice. Take a job in your field, ANY JOB, and start looking for a better job starting immediately after getting it. You can then ‘spin’ the job, talking it up and getting a ‘real’ job in your field.
-“Keep hounding your former teachers and classmates for the leads to the good stuff. Nobody gets a fat job in a recession without an introduction.” More good advice. However, my experence is that teachers don’t know anybody anywhere for shit (and I used to be a teacher…). Classmates are a good idea in that they may be working for a company and put in a good word for you. Network, man, network.
-“Lie. Extra points for getting a friend to pose as your employer–and pulling it off for you”. I know I could be flamed for this but it could also be good advice. However, it is difficult to pull off without preparation. You must get a dedicated line, preferably a cell phone, with an ‘older’ (>25) sounding voice answering professionally and with a business name who can pretend to be someone using a company cell phone… It costs money but could be worth it. You also need a reliable friend, preferably one where you could return the favor. Yes, it’s dishonest but desp. times… Another problem is that most businesses have web sites and when I look to hire someone now, I try to find their site. If they don’t have one or it looks crappy, it raises eyebrows. With some effort and $, this could be faked also.
And minus a million points if/when you get caught and are summarily terminated for lying on your application (since presumably you put a fake employer name and phone number on it). See that fine print at the bottom of the app? The bit that says “any false statement on this application constitutes grounds for dismissal”? It’s true.
That being said, I’m in exactly the same boat, or I will be in about a month. I spent the last two years getting a paralegal certificate (I’ll finish in December). Unfortunately, every ad out there for paralegals wants at least a year (usually more) of experience. Add to that the fact that we have a law school pumping out Jeebis knows how many graduates a year, none of whom want to leave Madison when they graduate, and who get hired to clerk (which entails doing largely what a paralegal would do, only at twice what the firm can charge per hour to the client) and the job market is thin on the ground.
For what it’s worth, this paradox doesn’t just happen at your first job. Everywhere along the line, you’re looking for a job that has more responsibility or money or power or whatever then your current one (there has to be a reason to switch, right?), and by definition you’re under-qualified. Every CEO is or was a first-time CEO. Same with every other position.
You just need to keep fighting. There’s something out there for you.
There are plenty of good places for interviewing advice out there. Getting references (from teachers or other) as already mentioned is a good one. Lying is a bad one. Stretching is good, lying is bad.
The most important piece of advice I can give you is to really understand the place you’re interviewing at and what they’re looking for in the role you’re interviewing for. Know about their products and direction. Know about recent developments in the news. Know about the job description; investigate deeply how you would perform that job. Especially if it’s something new to you. Walk in and be able to talk like it’s not new; have your homework done.
By the way, if you really want this job, you should call them back and tell them that you’d like to talk to them again, that you are so excited about the prospect of working at <XYZ>, that you are an excellent fit because of you past <blah> experience, and that you hope they’ll reconsider, and if they don’t you’d really like to be considered for a future role there.
Granted it’s a slim shot, but like I said, you’ve got to fight the good fight.
I had a previous employer once flat out tell me that I could put whatever I wanted to on future job applications and he’d confirm it, I just had to let him know ahead of time. Like if I said I’d worked for him for 30 years, he’d confirm it. I never did it, but damn… once in a lifetime offer.
But a lot of those companies went down in flames, including the one I worked for. Now there are thousands of us ex-dot.com employees struggling against each other for the meager selection of jobs left. I don’t blame the dart guns (How can I, I’m a great shot!), we worked long enough hours that a 15 minute game of tag didn’t really interfere with our efforts much. I blame the silly premise that you refer to. As well as the idea that the internet would generate revenue in giant huge gobs of cash. I believe it still can, but not without a solid business plan behind it. The internet is really best at complementing other sales efforts.
Unfortunately, the military isn’t an option for me. I was born severely to profoundly deaf, and would likely get classified 4-F faster than I could blink.
I discovered this when I got some phone calls after I aced the ASVAB test in high school. The minute I mentioned that I was severely to profoundly deaf, the recruiter said, “Oh. Well, thank you for your time,” and that was the end of the conversation.
I may be putting this plan into effect pretty soon. I have another job interview this Thursday afternoon with another area hospital. It isn’t a very desirable job, although it does have a pediatric component to it (they have an infant hearing screening program there). If I get that job, I’ll just use it to bide my time until something more desirable turns up.
With all due respect, I cannot do this. Aside from the ethical issues I have with this idea, there is the practical aspect I have to consider as well. The field that I’m in is a relatively small one. A lot of people in the local area in my field know each other. If I was caught, the word would get out rather quickly.
As someone once told me, “Protect your reputation. It’s often your most valuable asset.” I would hate to earn the reputation as a liar.
The hospital was looking to hire only one pediatric audiologist. I was told during the rejection phone call that the clinic may grow “by leaps and bounds” in the future, and they may be looking to hire again within a year. I’ll definitely keep my eye out for that.
I must live in some alternate universe. I have exactly the opposite problem.
26 years ago I chose my profession.
23 years ago, I was doing so well, I decided not to go to college.
12 years ago, I was doing so well, I was recruited to consult in my chosen profession.
I have multiple examples of clients who have made money, saved money, and increased shareholder value by following my guidence.
Today, I have a client list that includes 20 of the 25 largest companies in my industry. I have consulted to over 70 companies on 5 continents.
And not one of them would hire me if they knew I did not have a degree. Anything I might have learned 23 years ago would be absolutely irrelevant to today’s business environment.
I have been looking for something different for a couple of years now, and I cannot even get an interview because I have no degree.
Yes, I wish I had a degree, but for none of the right reasons.
Good Luck to you, Atreyu