The Great Ongoing Aviation Thread (general and other)

A couple months ago I was flying from JFK in New York City to Rome, Italy. I had to take a shuttle bus from Newark to JFK…supposedly a 1.15 hour ride. I had four hours to spare so no problem. Well, the shuttle was 45 minutes late and the drive took over 3 hours because traffic was pure hell. I was sure I was going to miss my flight and was running through the airport (which I am really too old now to be doing that well). I made it with five minutes to spare.

I had not even gotten in my seat yet when the pilot came on and said we were delayed because the other pilot was stuck in traffic. Can happen to anyone I guess.

Msn.com non-paywalled repost of Washington Post article:

Federal authorities have been investigating nearly 5,000 pilots suspected of falsifying their medical records to conceal that they were receiving benefits for mental health disorders and other serious conditions that could make them unfit to fly, documents and interviews show.

5,000 pilots suspected of hiding major health issues. Most are still flying.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/5000-pilots-suspected-of-hiding-major-health-issues-most-are-still-flying/ar-AA1fPJX8

Yikes. :flushed:

There are a number of issues there. I think the veterans may have a point that they feel targeted. But to me the main problem is that when it comes to medical certification of pilots, the FAA does things 180 degrees away from the very sensible way it approaches pilot error reporting.

When pilots have something abnormal happen - an altitude deviation or a misunderstanding of an ATC clearance, say - we are incentivized to report it. Doing so accomplishes two things: It often forestalls a disciplinary action and, more importantly, allows for data collection and analysis.

Imagine we didn’t have that system. We would then have pilots motivated to hide mistakes, we wouldn’t learn from them and notice trends that need to be addressed. It would be like… well, my doctor friends tell me it would be like modern medicine in which doctor errors currently kill a lot of people.

But with medicals, pilots are incentivized to hide some conditions. In some cases I see why. I used to know a pilot who had some sort of surgery as a child, and the form asks you to disclose surgeries. They were told by a doctor, “If you had that surgery at age 4 and it doesn’t have any impact on how you feel now, don’t list it. It will only cause problems down the line.”

Besides which, with the sheer number of pilots flying, of course they’re going to have some issues. Most people are not going to try to fly people into the ground like that German first officer.

Relevant quote from the article:

Blockquote
Joseph LoRusso, a Colorado-based aviation-law attorney whose firm has fielded “hundreds” of queries from military veterans under FAA scrutiny since July 2022, said it is an open secret that “probably greater than 85 percent of pilots are lying on their medical forms” because they don’t want to flag conditions that might drag out approval or renewal of their licenses.
“Really, they’re only making the skies more dangerous,” LoRusso said of the FAA’s approach to mental health. “It’s ungodly frustrating that pilots cannot be humans.”

I suspect the FAA is looking for sleep apnea issues. They’re pretty aggressive about it and pilots will likely buy their own CPAP machine.to avoid the issue at medicals.

‘I wish I could fly.’

https://worldtravelling.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/1-89-7.jpg/

link doesn’t work

A guy finds a genii. He says, ‘I wish I could fly!’

The guy goes to a doctor who says, ‘You no longer have diabetes?’

Airline says, ‘You’re hired!’

Guy flying an airliner.

AW&ST just ran a two-part article on the topic of this incredible bizjet accident from 3 years ago: NTSB Docket 99882
Stone drunk pilot flying a Citation manages to crash-land at an airport 85 miles from his destination & walk away from the destroyed airplane.

Rest of relevant data here: NTSB Docket - Docket Management System

Whole lotta questions about how the overall system led to this guy sitting there doing that in somebody else’s airplane.

If I was going to do that I certainly wouldn’t use MY airplane. :slight_smile:

I was amused by the thought that older A320s not only howl, they also bark. They are positively canine! On versions prior to the A320neo, one sometimes hears a barking sound coming from under the floor, as if there’s a large dog in the cargo hold. I believe this typically occurs on the ground when one of the engines is shut down, and is the sound of a hydraulic pump (the Power Transfer Unit) providing hydraulic pressure to the shut-down side. The noise comes from the pump operating in surges. I read that some other Airbus models had the potential to bark even louder, so Airbus had to install hydraulic dampers. Boeing also uses PTUs but they’re a different design.

Gotta give the guy a certain amount of credit: He managed to find an airport and land (okay, crash) without killing himself or anyone else, flying with a blood alcohol level of .288. (That’s 10 drinks in the past hour territory.)

That is – no exaggeration – very close to the level considered to be alcohol poisoning and capable of causing unconsciousness and potentially even death. The funny part, in a morbid sort of way, is that the pilot tried to blame the crash on mechanical failure of the thrust reversers! Amazingly creative thinking for someone so totally wasted!

I imagine the FAA might be contemplating whether this talented individual should continue to hold an airline transport license. :smiley:

Was that measured after the crash?

If it was, either he was drinking while flying (or still absorbing the alcohol in his stomach) or his blood alcohol level was higher than .288 when he took off and it came down during the course of the flight.

Driving drunk is very bad but I can kinda see how some people still get behind the wheel when wasted (not excusing them).

Flying a plane while completely smashed is a whole other level. Something I can’t imagine. I’ve been very drunk before and, while I am not a pilot, I feel confident saying I wouldn’t dream of trying to fly in that condition.

Apparently some can though. Scary.

Well he’s spreading his alcohol content over three dimensions instead of only two. Doesn’t that count as a reduction?

/s

I am not IFR rated. Can a pilot legally take off from an airport without ILS, having filed in IFR flight plan? Like, the ceiling at the non-IFR airport is such that the pilot can safely launch.

I am not IFR rated. Can a pilot legally take off from an airport without ILS, having filed in IFR flight plan? Like, the ceiling at the non-IFR airport is such that the pilot can safely launch.

Under Part 91, sure. You can take off 0/0.

Under 121 or 135 it gets complicated. If the weather / vis is low - you can see the runway but it’s below mins for the approach if you need to come back, you have to declare a takeoff alternate. That’s a suitable airport within one hour of flying time at normal cruise.

When the visibility becomes “lower than standard” (which has different definitions depending on how many engines you have) there’s a whole matrix of factors depending on what your company is authorized for through its OpSpecs.

I’ve been through multiple, multiple ground schools at airlines and charter companies, and this is always a bear to learn. Putting it glibly, the rules sound like, “You can take off with such-and-such visibility, on Tuesdays between 5:34 and 6:22, if you’ve been to a left handed dentist on a Wednesday on one or more of the previous Leap Years.”

When I’ve been in situations requiring actual use of the Lower than Standard Takeoff rules I’m very, very careful. I don’t do it from memory, and it often involves a call to the chief pilot to be certain I’m interpreting everything correctly.

If your question was more about, “Can you operate IFR from an airport without any charted approaches?”, again yes. Assuming decent weather, lack of ILS isn’t a factor. However, I have seen some charter guys get flummoxed when there are no instrument departure procedures OR obstacle departure procedures. In that case you perform a “diverse area departure”. You must be able to achieve a 200 fpm climb to the MEA, and I think there’s a minimum height before making any turns.

As always LSL will be around shortly with more complete information.

Speaking as just a lowly private pilot - when I went in for my medical it was very clear that whomever wrote the forms/came up with the system was assuming 20 year olds, meaning limited time frame in which to have a history, and with contemporary record keeping.

At the time, I was mid-40’s and even though I had less medical history than many that age, So, without going into details in my case, solely as an example - if you were 45 and admitted you’d been in a serious car accident at 5 you might be asked for the names of all doctors who had seen you 40 years before, information on broken bones, a CT scan of your brain if you’d had a concussion (CT scans didn’t exist back then), a list of all medications… Well, screw you if maybe the hospital had been shut down in the ensuing decades, doctors had passed away, various tests common now didn’t exist back then, you were five years old and it was your now-deceased parents handling all that so you couldn’t just ask them…

It gets real, real tempting to simply not mention that accident when you were five at all…

Or what if you simply don’t know some of your medical history? If you knew you had had that accident at 5 but didn’t know you’d been diagnosed with a concussion and spent a week in a coma so you didn’t 'fess up at the initial medical exam but it comes out later? Did you lie or did you simply not know? But you’re supposed to know, to know everything!

Admitting to something that happened decades before can result in demands for documentation that either no longer existed or never existed in the first place (like for tests common today that didn’t exist back then), or asking you to remember details from decades before. If you can’t produce them then you can be forced to either undergo a lot of tests (which may or may not be covered by insurance - actually usually not since they aren’t considered medically necessary) or you won’t be allowed to fly.

For professional pilots, who are already in the system (and thus got over that first hurdle) there’s the constant worry of developing something that will result in either endless testing (again, not covered by insurance) and paperwork or that will simply end your career. On top of which, seeking any form of mental health counseling is going to turn your own file into a huge red flag, leading to an unhealthy level of stoicism as well as self-medication with hopes of not getting caught. A system that actively discourages people from asking questions about themselves and seeking help is poorly designed.

I had an issue like that - I was able to slide it by because it hadn’t affected me since the incident. But I was flying strictly as a private pilot. If I had intended to fly for the airlines I would have had to undergo maybe $10k or more in tests to prove it.

Let’s take a guy who served in the military and is now looking at civilian aviation: maybe he was active duty in a warzone and subjected to a concussion from a nearby explosion. The FAA is going demand all sorts of tests to prove he didn’t suffer any brain damage, scrutinize him for possible seizures, give him shit over any hearing loss he might have suffered (very common in modern battlefield situations), want extensive documentation on any wounds (so don’t admit to that purple heart) whether or not related to flight safety… Yes, very much veterans can feel targeted.

Nope. You’re better positioned than I, operating Part 91 and through so many more of those less-than-fully-equipped places.

The super-short answer to @Johnny_L.A 's question is that the Feds thought of that and there are procedures to launch when the weather is such that you can’t return. Even if there is no tower or approach control where you are and the weather is less than VMC. If the terrain or airspace is sufficiently challenging there’ll be a published IFR procedure (SID or ODP) to transition from the runway to a safe altitude and direction to proceed enroute. If instead the geometry is benign, then the “diverse area departure” applies as @Llama_Llogophile said.

I agree that I never do a low-wx departure from memory. My mental notes amount to: Vis greater than 1 mile? If yes: go. If not: look it up. And the rules differ in the USA, Canada, and some, not all, other countries.


@Broomstick: Yeah, the whole thing is real silly as you so neatly outlined. Historically the practical reality was that the actual intent as enforced by FAA was a best-effort basis on your medical history as long as your motive wasn’t hiding something you knew all about and knew was disqualifying. I have a log stretching back decades of every doctor (lots) or hospital (thankfully few) visit I’ve ever had.

Whether we are entering a new more Big Brotherly era is an open question. Certainly the public and bureaucratic pressure is in that direction. Medical privacy is a touchy subject though, with lots of sharp thorns to bite any politician or bureaucrat wanting to break down that wall.

As to this bit:

This is mostly an artifact of how this recent investigation / witch hunt got started.

The Government has the medical records of everyone using the VA medical system, but not of anyone else. The VA let the FAA have access to those VA records under some appropriate disclosure law. And in comparing the two rosters FAA came up with a lot of positive hits for VA diagnoses made and care provided that weren’t disclosed to FAA by the pilots on their medical applications.

The FAA has no legal method to obtain e.g. your or my or @Llama_Llogophile’s medical records. If they could get everyone else’s records, and they ran the same cross-checks, they’d find another heap of people with undisclosed known and treated medical conditions.

Essentially the FAA went looking for its car keys under the streetlight and all the bums passed out there got caught, while the many, many more bums sleeping in the dark alley were ignored. And the streetlight bums are now complaining they were singled out. Which is true but not because of who they were, but because of where they were sleeping.


From my contacts in or recently retired / separated from the military, I learn that it has become a cultural norm for most vets to apply for, and be approved for, VA disability regardless of their actual damage. It’s just a free paycheck every month, plus lifetime free medical care, that they’ve persuaded themselves they’ve “earned” by being heroes, not mere (cough) civilians. Color me disgusted, especially while they rail on about “welfare cheats” stealing all their tax dollars.

Another factor not made clear in that article is that military pilots can receive an FAA civilian commercial license simply for filling out the application and taking a trivial test on Part 91 regs. So substantially every military pilot does that even if they have no intention of flying for a living. If they truly never intend to fly anything ever again they would not bother getting an FAA medical. But if they’d maybe like to fly a Cessna some time, they apply for an FAA 3rd class. Don’t mention that VA disability they’re recieving and now they’ve sprung the trap on themselves. Oops.

My point being that while all these people are rated commercial pilots, the vast majority are not actively flying for a living. So the number of positive VA/FAA hits is a scary large headline that overstates the actual number of folks hauling unsuspecting people around en masse with a significant skeleton in their medical closet.


As to the drunk bizjet pilot, the AW&ST article had a bunch of detail not present in the NTSB docket I linked to. Whether that was a result of the reporter talking directly to the investigators and witnesses, or was artistic license on his part I can’t say.

But if that article is to be believed, the guy had had legal trouble with booze before, and was clearly an alcoholic. You or I would be unconscious at 0.288. A hard-core boozer can be semi-coherent at that level. He evidently had been actively drinking during the flight.