The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread

[QUOTE=WordMan]
A lot of geeks mess with the adjustable pole pieces on a 'bucker…
[/quote]
I’m a geek? Who knew.

Hah! I’ve never really bothered to adjust pole pieces carefully until very recently. I’ve been learning an Albert Lee solo (mentioned up-thread) which obviously is played ultra clean. I’ve been using my PRS* and sure enough I noticed quite a volume difference between strings, especially a big drop off from the solid G to the wound D. So out came the screwdriver and now the D pole pieces are now about 1.5mm higher. And no, I did not carefully align the slot directions. Really who has time for that?

*The more suitable Tele and Performer are out of action. I really need to fix my other guitars.

Leo was an electrical engineer, marketeer, and entrepreneur. What he was NOT was a person who could play guitar. I always figured that was why the controls on just about every model Fender guitar were different. I mean, every other company’s version of 1 tone and 1 volume per per pickup was just boring. So that’s why there were those odd control configurations on the Jazzmaster and Jazz Bass.

He had a stable of working guitarists - Bill Carson was a Bakersfield-type Country player who was Fender’s demo guy for the Strat, for instance.

To my knowledge, Fender designed new whammy’s, controls, etc. - to keep things fresh and interesting. The Jazzmaster was designed for…well, jazz - so the whammy was designed to be a variant of the jazz guitar trapeze bridge on archtops - with the strings extended over the bridge but having some length behind (not stopping at the bridge like a Strat). The various tone controls were the '50s equivalent of a row of coil-splitter and phase switches - i.e., ways to dial up a ton of tones…

Electric Guitar Wood Myth Busted?

Of course, the comments are full of aggressively defensive guitarists arguing that science is wrong.

Interesting. Spectrum analysis is NOT the same as hands-on experience, but there’s typically a reasonable rule of thumb in there. And yeah, body material is less of a factor in tone production as the rabid online masses would seem to want to believe. I have come to understand my preferences and don’t think much beyond that.

I will also say that, after a lot of playing, listening, and owning, I decided that my Guitar Toy Money was better spent on higher-end old acoustics. I was able to replicate the tone and playability of my vintage electrics with the Tele’s I built, so I ended up trading the vintage electrics for old acoustics and haven’t looked back. You can’t replicate the tone of a vintage acoustic on a few levels.

I’d buy a carbon-fibre acoustic if I had that kind of money to throw around. :wink:

Chalk and cheese; for what they are, CF’s are an excellent option - durable, weather resistant, stable and some sound and play great. But they sound nothing like a great example of an old guitar. From my POV I hate their necks - most take advantage of CF’s superior strength to design slim, fast necks - I hate that :wink:

I have no argument with the idea that woods in acoustic instruments do make a difference, I just think that, duh, it’s the 21st century, alternatives to deforestation are a good idea. I’ve never tried an actual carbon fibre guitar; they’re pretty rare in this hemisphere as far as I know. But I like the idea.

This is not news to me. The only thing I’d suspect is solid bodies made of different woods, with identical hardware (bridge & tailpiece), might have different sustain characteristics.

Yep; that makes sense. Heck, I go after the old ones anyway. :wink:

In the “latest hyped thing amongst acoustic GASers” (i.e., folks who buy and sell higher-end guitars when a new feature or maker gets hyped) is “torrefaction” of guitar topwoods.

It’s basically a wood equivalent to tempering with heat - you bake out moisture and stabilize the wood at that level. A very well-respected, high-end, small-batch maker, Dana Bourgeois, has introduced the Aged-Tone series featuring torrefied tops. GASsers are at their GASsiest about them…

The “common sense” of the process supports the hype - just like the “common sense” in the late 70’s that you need a big freakin’ brass sustain block under the bridge of your solidbody to increase mass and sustain and an Ovation bowlback acoustic. :rolleyes:

I guess I have a guitarist’s interest in trying one, but it feels like the latest “thing” - but to your point about materials, it maintains the “do it the old way” approach that most guitarists tend to embrace, even in the face of natural resource issues. I am one of those conservatively-minded guitarists, I suppose, but therefore make it a point to buy the old guitars - there are plenty available at all price points…

While I agree with WordMan that the methodology used doesn’t conclusively prove that the guitar’s sound is unaffected by the wood, their conclusion is basically what I was getting at with my “masonite or air is the ultimate tone wood” comment earlier.

I’ve played basses made out of lots of different woods, this masonite and poplar bass sounds better than any of them. My bass teacher told me when I was 14 that the bass I chose really didn’t matter too much. While the pickups mattered, it was really the amp that was important. When I got into a band, and usually got to hear at least 3 band’s instruments most nights we played, I realized how correct he was. All of the sound you’re hearing from an electric is made by the magnetic field flux interacting with your amp and speakers. If it doesn’t affect some part of that in a big way, it’s not changing the sound much.

Now, where I think the construction matters is:

  1. The mounting of the pickups. Anyone who says a hollow body sounds indistinguishable from a semi-hollowbody, from a Stratocaster*, to a solid body isn’t listening close enough, I think.

  2. The type of pickups, and how they are wired. Entire books can, have, and undoubtedly will soon be written on this subject. I won’t get into this, as I’ll get out of my depth and into voodoo pretty quickly.

  3. Everything suspending the strings and holding them at tension. String contact/support parts, the neck joint, and the strings themselves. Poor, gappy bolt-on neck joints (I think these have almost disappeared!) sound different from a good one. I don’t think a set neck or neck-through construction changes the sound of the guitar very much from a well-made bolt on joint. At the ends, both the bridge and nut’s sturdiness and how well they’re fit to the strings matters. The replacement bridge I got for the Danelectro didn’t sound any different because it was made out of sturdier metal, it just didn’t bow anymore. On the other hand, the nylon roller bridges on my Univox ES-330 copy means that it won’t ever sound just like a real one with out a bridge transplant. Nylon just doesn’t hold a string like brass or even wood does.

Where my “masonite or air” comment was joking, was that it doesn’t have to be masonite. I think I love the sound of this bass because it’s semi-hollow. As long as the construction materials responded in roughly the same way the masonite body on this one does, it’d sound roughly the same. If the construction materials were say, steel or crepe paper, in the same dimensions, it’d sound very different.

On an unrelated note, my amp lust is now for a Traynor YBA300. 300W into 2-4ohms, 240W or so into 8ohms, a dozen 6L6s for a power section. They run in pairs, and will drop out a pair with a failing (or missing) tube. You can also mix+match in pairs of EL43’s to change the sound. I think I can switch out the 12AU7 for another 12AX7, and it could double as a guitar amp with wayyyy too much headroom, and the EQ in the wrong place. :slight_smile:
Of course, none of the above applies to acoustics much, though I have played a nice sounding aluminum dreadnought. I could have mistaken it for a wood one through the piezo.

You guys are great at schooling me where I’m a loon. Wail away!:slight_smile:
TL;DR: See post #3169, it’s all in one line, in there somewhere.

*I have a theory about the classic s-s-s-on-pickguard strat’s signature sound. Since the pickups are mounted to a pickguard, and the body has a big rout, it kind of has the tonal characteristics of a semi-hollow, only reversed. The resonance of the hollow is diminished and shorter, the big, wide attack is still there.

I would go so far as to say that back/side woods don’t even matter that much in ACOUSTIC guitars. The AG forums are full of cork sniffers who insist they can tell the difference between Brazilian and Madagascar Rosewoods (“punchier midrange and glassy bell-like trebles, obvs”), but I’d bet most of them probably can’t even tell the difference between rosewood and particleboard. Some of them even claim they can distinguish a tonal difference depending on the kind of glue used to fasten the joints, which is an utterly risible notion.

I don’t know how anyone can even pretend to isolate a factor like that, given the natural variance in woods and the inability to control for other factors.

I just wanted to drop in to wish a Happy 80th Birthday to Julian Bream.

In case no one has heard him yet, I’d like to introduce you to Mike Dawes. Very, very reminiscent of Michael Hedges in many ways.

Somebody That I Used To Know - solo guitar

Boogie Slam

ReticulatingSpines - invoking the rule that 95% of everything is crap, then yes, the vast majority of what you read online is hoodoo. SDMB’er Shakester does a great job keeping us honest on that point when we start to disappear up our own geekiness with regard to body woods, pickups, etc. :wink:

But, to be clear: some of that stuff matters. It may only be boil-downable to a few Rules of Thumb, but those Rules of Thumb are real and can be very helpful.

I have owned and lived with a pretty broad spectrum of new and old guitars. The Internet is a great place to take a few rules of thumb and spin them out of control, but there is a bit of truth to some of them, and if you invest the time and play a ton of guitars, you can develop your own conclusions. And end up with some pretty great guitars.

Very nice.

I have heard of Mike Dawes, but can’t recall if I’ve seen him. Very talented player - I hear a lot of Hedges in the percussive tap-guitar techniques, but a lot of Lenny Breau harmonics, too

What’s tough for me with players like him is, I don’t know - call it “talent fatigue.” He’s a great player, clearly - but after a couple of minutes, it starts to sound the same to me. Even playing a cover of a hit pop song has a bit too munch sameness. Citing Michael Hedges - that’s a key difference: Hedges’ songs seem to work better as songs.

To be clear - when I play by myself, I am setting up a groove and adding fills - just this like guy. Well, actually nothing like Dawes, given his huge talent - but setting up a strummy groove and adding lead / melodic fills. I can do this for 5, 15, 30 minutes - whatever, if I am “feeling it” and having fun. But that doesn’t mean I think an audience would want to hear it for that long. Guys like Dawes looks like he is having a great time and setting up a great groove - I would love to be that good and that “inside” my playing - but I see a dude jamming in his bedroom, not hearing the songs.

That’s not specific to him at all - just a pet peeve I have with many/most solo “technique heavy” guitarists…

Sorry for the sidebar commentary…

One thing I always wonder about the old guitars and the holy woods is the effects of age. Magnets aren’t the same they were fifty years ago, and the wood’s drier.

Yep - that’s a good thing. If the guitar has lasted this long and has demonstrated that it is structurally stable (no neck-bending weirdness, no collapsing of the top, etc.), then the old wood sounds absolutely wonderful…

I find myself amused and confused when I see pickup manufacturers advertise their “vintage” pickups. Is a “Vintage” PAF going to sound like a brand new PAF did in 1957 or like a PAF with a 56 year old magnet in it. Are the coils wound on the same equipment as used in 57? I’ve seen some old pick up coils where the windings were sort of pear shaped or bulging in the middle rather then uniform.