The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread

Cafe Society
3624

Narls, you indeed have awesome kids. That you raised your kids well enough for them to know to put your name in lightning bolts justifies your name being in lightning bolts.

Meanwhile, I have completely lost my mind.

I usually have a personal policy of not paying more than $500 on a guitar. However, since I have just closed up the majority of my mom’s estate, I decided to break my own rules and treat myself. I was originally thinking about a Guild Gumby w/2 pickups and a Bigsby, but none that I liked seemed to be floating around, and I was going to wait for the guitar show that’s later this month. Either way, I didn’t want a guitar that was a normal guitar shape, and didn’t want a metal guitar.

But I don’t have to wait two weeks for the internet, it’s always available for shopping. I found the G6138 Gretsch Bo Diddley model, and eventually happened on the G6199 Gretsch Billy Bo. If there’s a signature model I’d consider buying, it’d be a Bo Diddley model. I wondered if either would be at the guitar show, and wondered if I could live with the non-cutaway G6138. After perusing the internet for them a bit more, and playing some local in-stock Gretsches, I found out about these Billy Bo’s

I was immediately in love with it. The color is perfect, it comes with both a stop tailpiece and a Bigsby. The only two things against it are the gold hardware, and I was wary about spending that much on a guitar I couldn’t play first. A local store could get it for me, but I’d be on the hook for the guitar if they brought it in. After hemming and hawing about traveling down there this coming weekend, I decided this morning that I’d just take advantage of their return policy if I didn’t like it. It should be here by the end of the week. :eek:

I went into this GAS episode expecting I’d spend $1500 max, on what would probably be a guitar older than I am. It was amazingly easy to justify twice that on a new guitar once I saw that shape was available in green, and my eyes got to dancing around in my head.

But really, maybe I haven’t lost my mind. Everyone I’ve spoken with about old Gretsches lauds the current production, especially the Japanese built ones. The only complaint I could fathom about my guitarist’s White Falcon is that it’s body is friggin’ huge, and he plays ultra light strings. The Gretsch will de-value more than the Guild would in the short term, but who knows about it long term, and I don’t buy guitars in order to sell them. :slight_smile:

3625

scabpicker - that’s a gorgeous-looking guitar. I love Grestch’s Cadillac Green - I had an old 1955 Country Club in that color that I had lucked into. But, as you say, the older original Gretches weren’t known for build quality and durability, and this one I had was in excellent shape, so I was afraid to play it and ended up trading it.

I bet you will enjoy it - I think they are chambered, so the tone is not like a typical solidbody. I look forward to hearing your review.

My guitar update isn’t much of one - my son is playing a ton, like, an hour or two a day, and it kind of uses up all the Guitar Time in the house (his sister wants to kill him). He’s been playing for maybe 2 years and is already doing stuff that I didn’t figure out until I had been playing for over 10 years. I wish my dad played guitar, dammit! :wink: So he is picking up stuff like the Texas Shuffle upstroke that SRV uses on Pride and Joy - not easy to do!

I will say that we’ve been impressed with the Taylor GS-Mini that is his main player. For a $450 guitar, it does a great job. I wish it had a bigger neck - it is a 7/8 size guitar and the neck is proportionately small. But my teenage boy can leave it out, or take it with him on a service trip to Nicaragua and I don’t feel anxiety.

I am not a Taylor guy typically, but can heartily recommend this one as a beater/travel guitar…

3626

Continuing with guitar pick talk…

My guitar teacher uses and recommend I use the 3mm Stubby style picks (Amazon link). He’s a jazz guy, though I don’t know why they’re considered better for jazz. I’d previously always used the Wankel/Mazda picks :wink: mentioned up-thread above. I’ve always had a loose hold on picks by habit, and always dropped them or annoyingly had them twisting and pivoting in my grip. After some weeks, I now strongly prefer the 3mm stubbys, mostly because of the divot that keep the pick seated nicely. I rarely, if ever, drop them, and I think I get better tactile feedback.

That’s my data-point.

3627

Good lord, almost every time you mention a guitar you used to have, my mind boggles. I can understand this one, though. Almost all of the old Gretsches you see being played a lot have quite a few repairs.

Yes, it’s built llke a Jet, a chambered body with a laminate top. I’ve had a few hollow bodies, but I’ve never had a semi hollow or chambered guitar, and I’ve never had “boutique” pickups. So I’m very impatient to get it in my hands and see what it’s like.

The quality of inexpensive guitars came up several times while I was shopping this time around. It was kind of hard to spend more than $500 and justify it at all. You can get electric guitars with set necks for less than that these days. Remember the middling guitar you’d normally get for $450 in 1990?

I’ve probably already said it, but I’m too lazy to search the thread: My data point is Thumbpick!

I have a right thumb that tends to get weak toward the end of a set. As a remedy, I started using a thumbpick. I don’t have to grip it, so my thumb doesn’t wear out holding it. As an added bonus, I’ve become light years better at finger picking since adopting it. The only drawback I’ve found is that it takes some getting used to at first. The back of your thumb will hurt the first few times.

3628

I have been an active guitar geek for 35+ years; I have run into all sorts of stuff. That '55 Gretsch was just a lucky find.

Yes, lower-priced guitars have really gone up in quality. It is a Golden Age and we’re all better for it. But a great Gretsch like that, or one of my old acoustics is a whole 'nother level of great.
Picks - Johnny Marr plays with a thumbpick which he grips to flatpick or uses as a true thumbpick with his fingers also picking. It is a very versatile approach.

3629

There may be three of these in existence. More as the story develops.

Thought you’d like to know, WordMan.
The owner is related to Ms. Marshall, and it’s coming back to the musician who noticed it so they can check the top bracing.

3630

Cool - thanks for sharing!

Oh, the geekery available. I will hit a few bullets and then need to get back to work:

  • Gibson was struggling during the Depression and started making private-label guitars under a variety of brands. Kalamazoo, Cromwell, Kel Kroydon (a toy distributor), etc. Some orders were very small, like this Marshall you link to. There’s a guy who wrote a book on all of Gibson’s other brands, and over on the UMGF there is an ongoing alert to be on the look out for more.

  • That guitar looks a lot like their Kel Kroydons, which also featured painted designs on the front - I would love to get one with the birds on it:

http://arkneweraguitars.com/resources/2+Kels.jpg

  • Besides the different painted tops and the mother-of-toilet-seat fingerboard (also featured on Gibson’s L-Century models - yuk), these off-label guitars featured NO truss rod - Gibson was saving that only for Gibson models.

  • These 1930 - early '32 Gibsons are the first that they made with Martin-style X-bracing. They are considered one of the best ever Gibsons made. Extremely lightly built they are amazingly responsive. I know; I have a '31 Gibson L-1 and it is one of the finest guitars I have ever played. Still pinch myself. Towards the end of '31/early '32. Gibson started beefing up the bracing on the guitars so they would be a bit more durable - changed the sound, and led to those next-gen guitars to be quintessential Blues guitars - nice and thumpy for fingerstyle blues.

Gotta run!

3631

I just saw a guitar for sale at a yard sale. It’s an acoustic 6-string Tokai Franciscan in pretty decent shape. Had the case, also. She was asking $190 for it, but I’m having trouble finding price information online for this model. Anybody have a ballpark?

3632

Is this the same model?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-FRANCISCAN-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-MODEL-6900-MADE-IN-KOREA-/251571676567?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

It looks like that one can be got for $119+32.50 shipping.

3633

I don’t know the guitar, but a quick Google suggests it is a classical guitar - ? If so, and in general, I would think one of those could be had for cheaper - unless that model is held out as a special, high-end Tokai, I would assume it was a well-made low priced model and for a garage sale, it should be quick a bit cheaper…

3634

Well, it took some work, but I see that this one sold on eBay in June.

If you search through “Sold listings” sorted by price, you’ll notice that although the asking price was $190, it actually went out the door for somewhere between $100 and $117. The Tokai acoustics seem to be all over the place pricewise on eBay, from very cheap to reasonably expensive. But it you can find “Made in Japan” somewhere on the guitar, there’s a reasonable expectation that it was built with good craftsmanship, even in cases where the manufacturer had to scrimp on the cost of materials to meet a certain price point.

Hope that helps.

3635

I saw that one, but it’s not identical. Different markings on the headstock and a different type of bridge/saddle arrangement; that would seem to suggest perhaps an earlier version or something. Also, the seller is saying it was made in Korea, while Tokai, as far as I know, is Japanese. The one that Enter the Flagon linked to looks identical. I saw a lot of Cat’s Eyes models on eBay, which seem to have higher prices, but almost no Franciscan models. The woman said that the company made some models back in the day that resulted in lawsuits from some American makers over patent or copyright infringement. Some of those models, she said, bring higher prices, as they stopped producing them.

Well, it’s probably not worth buying. The body looked solid, and the sound was pretty good, even at the higher end of the scale, but I have no idea what condition the neck is in. Without knowing if this particular model has any value, it would be a crap shoot.

3636

Dchord, any progress on the search for a new gitbox? I concur with Wordman, and think you should give some carbon fiber guitars some air time. Rainsong, Blackbird, and CA acoustics might carry something you like. I can attest that the Rainsongs have beautiful crystalline, clean highs and deep bottom end. You can feel the whole guitar vibrating when you get aggressive on the attack. Plus, you can use them as a paddle if you lose the oars in your rowboat. :slight_smile: AG magazine has a good article on Blackbird, and thierLucky 13model is something I have lusted after since I’ve seen it.

3637

My son just tried a CA / Composite Acoustics travel guitar and really liked it…

…but to reward him for his grades, he picked out a 1958 Harmony h1215 archtop - incredibly fun, funky guitar that is surprisingly strummable for an archie and only set me back $225. He’s a big Jack White fan, so no surprise he was drawn to it. And let’s face it, old guitars are cool!

3638

Those carbon fiber guitars are very interesting and seem to have great sound. Not all that expensive, either. Does one brand have an edge over the others? What’s the downside, if any?

3639

They have a decent tone - versatile. Can handle humidity and beatings way better vs wood. Biggest issues for me are a bit of a tone compromise (but in high humidity or camping, that’s small beer), and the necks - because CF is so strong, they can be made with super slim necks and usually are. I hate that to the point of finding them unplayable. For 99% of players though that would be a lesser issue.

3640

One other issue is when it comes time to do repairs; cf techs aren’t that common and even something as simple as a refret may be a challenge. Guitar snobs will sneer and tell you that it doesn’t have real tone because it’s not wood. Honestly, if you treat a cf guitar as well as a wood one, it should outlive you.
Wordman, I think your son has great taste! I did a neck reset on a 61 Hofner Club 50 and my son wanted it in the worst way. Now he’s eyeing up a 61 LP Gold top but I told him he better get a really well paying job if he wants it.

3641

Thanks, swampspruce - smart comment about repairs. Maybe you’d have to take it to a surf shop for fiberglass work :wink:

What’s a '61 Goldtop? They stopped making LP Goldtops in '57, and heck, stopped making single cutaway Les Pauls in 1960, switching to the SG-shaped Les Pauls that he quickly made them change the name of. Granted, there have been a ton of resissues - is there a “Les Paul 1961 Goldtop” among them? With Gibson, anything is possible.

As for the Harmony archtop, I agree. He has just started singing and songwriting, so I was worried that, as an archtop, it would not have enough low-end to support vocals and he would be better off with a biggish flattop like a dread. But it does sound good - this particular guitar has “good bones” - and he was singing just fine over it (I had him take it outside to not bug the other music shop patrons, so he entertained the kids at the ice cream shop next door ;)). Also, there is something to be said for finding a funky old guitar that you can call your own. Feeling that connection far outweighs whether or not a guitar is “the proper fit” - if he loves it, he’ll play it.

I knew he had me when he invoked a saying I shared when I was checking out some guitars with him a year or so ago: “but Dad, this guitar has a lot of songs in it, I can just tell.”

What’re you gonna say to that? :wink:

3642

I would say YES. The Hofner was the same way. Sorry, typo. It was a '71.

3643

Ah - an early 70’s, complete with the boo-boo rings*!!

*I suspect you know this, swampspruce, but for other folks: in the late 60’s and very early 70’s when Gibson was stepping gradually into reissuing various single-cutaway Les Pauls, they sometimes routed them for full-sized humbucker pickups, but then took a bunch of old Epiphone mini-hums and wanted to use them, so they mounted full-sized 'bucker rings with additional inner rings inside them to handle the smaller size of the mini-hum’s - hence the loving nickname “boo-boo rings.”

Ah, Gibson, is there anything you won’t attempt?

Back in the day, folks tried to assert that some of the first-reissue LP’s from the '68-'69 period were made from old leftover bodies and necks from the 50’s which would be a big deal. But it has been shown through a review of their poorly-kept records that this wasn’t the case.

And you can’t blame folks for wanting to believe that - in the world of Gibson acoustics, there are, infamously “floor sweep models” - just what they sound like: they would take leftover parts, assemble them into one-off variant guitars and sell them.