The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread

Cafe Society
4064

Well I did that reading years ago, (my question was specific to how your amp sounds) and now I’m remembering how a solid state Class A push-pull output stage would be able to give a smooth overdriven sound which would feature primarily second harmonic distortion. It wouldn’t need to be complicated, but it would be unnecessarily bulky (large heat sinks and filter capacitors), hot, and inefficient. And redundant, since it’s more economical to get that smooth second harmonic sound by overdriving the the preamp.
As far as the sound of an overdriven tube output section, I agree with WordMan’s post; and suggest comparing a Jim Kelley design (very clean preamp driving a Class AB power amp) versus, for instance, a Dumble Overdrive Special, (a high gain preamp driving a very clean power amp). Most people agree that the two sound very different.

Anyhow, that’s a nice amp you have there, I hope you enjoy it. :slight_smile:

4065

Rats, missed the edit window. I should’ve said that I really was only interested in how your amp sounds, and apologize that it seemed as if I was asking for a lesson on amp design). Note to self: it’s proofread, edit, submit; not submit, proofread, edit. :slight_smile:
Still, the stuff about the Music Man was totally worth the price of admission.

4066

Whew, I came off just as know-it-all and arrogant as I feared, there. That’s what I get for posting with the assistance of grain-derived fun, long after my bedtime.

Generally, I agree. The power amp does have some interaction with the sound, and the design of even a solid state one is important. But most 50-100W amps through 4x12’s, with master volumes don’t really get to drive their power amps hard enough for it to make noticeable power amp distortion unless they get into a really big room, or outdoors where you can run them hard without killing folks. High wattage non-master volume ones have the same problem when paired with large cabs, but they can be driven hard indoors with power attenuators/soaks. Until then, I think most of the perceived distortion is being generated by the preamp.

I dearly dream to be on the cover of Mediocre Guitar Player magazine. I’ll always be too cheap to make Cork Sniffer, my Silvertone didn’t cost anywhere near $300. :slight_smile:

Hehehe, I apologize for giving you an unasked-for, disjointed, incomplete and completely math-free lesson on amp design, which didn’t really answer the question. Thank you for being kind and reading it. WordMan nailed it, I was enjoying myself far too much by the time I hit submit.

The real answer to your question is that the guy in the video doesn’t have that amp turned up much at all. Through that video, I can’t see either of the masters being past 3, and they’re usually around 2. It’s pretty loud on 2, but the drummer would probably ask you to turn up a bit. I’d say that’s about where the amp starts to give the cab what it needs, and you can start to hear the bass frequencies in the sound. Below that volume, it starts to thin out. I’ve only had it up to about 5 on the master (ungodly loud for my practice room), and it just got bigger and fuller sounding up to there.

4067

Just curious. Do you have issues with your guitar tuning as the weather changes?

I just tuned my 2 acoustics, electric and electric 4 string bass. They had all gone sharp. My low E string was registering as a F on my peterson strobe tuner. LOL The other strings were way sharp too but didn’t quite show the next note. Funny that the bass was effected the same way. Its an octave lower but that E string was a flat F on the tuner.

I tune and play my practice guitar every day. The other instruments were tuned three weeks ago. Upper 20’s and light snow. Today its upper 40’s and rain. The tuning will change again in a few days on a 65 degree dry day.

I guess its the neck that flexes with the humidity? If it flexs down it tightens the strings. Loosens if it flexes the other way. Even a little tension change is noticeable in the string’s pitch.

I never noticed this 30 years ago in high school. I often just tuned the instrument to itself without any reference. The strings were out a little but I had no idea (back then) they were shifting so much from 440 standard.

4068

Yes: the metal of the strings, and the wood of the neck (truss rod and frets notwithstanding) react to temp fluctuations differently. I own some very old, very stable acoustics, and see this effect.

Also: I keep my guitars cased, and toss a humidifier in the case when winter cold dries the air out below ~30%. Both serve to keep my stable guitars…stable :wink: But I still note the variations…

4069

I’ve noticed the high E string is the most stable. It rarely shifts much in pitch. The low E shifts the most and its the biggest PITA to tune accurately. The tiniest peg adjustment can shift it from flat to sharp on a strobe tuner. The A shifts a lot but is easier to dial in with the tuner. Maybe these clip on tuners don’t register the bass vibrations through the wood as well? That might explain why they are harder to tune.

4070

Hmm - not sure what to say. I find my low strings to be more stable and my higher ones more temperamental, but it is all within a small range. Also, I tend not to futz with precise use of a digital tuner. I want all strings to tune to the same place on the tuner - e.g., spot-on green; or if they have a flicker of flat or sharp, be consistent - with the exception of the B, which I come in a bit low on. That takes about a minute, then I check on an open D and G, which are the chords mostly likely to be a tad off due to relative temperament. Tweak to get those good and play on…

4071

I may be fussing too much getting the strobe to completely stop (Peterson uses a strobe). Its just the clip on that is a bit temperamental with the bass strings. I got it figured out now and can tune pretty quickly.

I use a Peterson Stomp Classic to tune my electric instruments (and one acoustic with a pickup). I love that tuner. Its so much faster and responsive than a clip on. Can be used onstage to tune live without any sound going through the amp. It’s also a DI Box when I want to plug my guitar directly into a console.

4072

My honey bought me a HoneyDipper for my birthday.

I played it for a while in standard tuning and then retuned it to Open-D. I’ve been messing with a glass slide and a brass slide for these last few days. The brass sounds better. Having almost no experience on slide guitar I’m hoping to get some time this weekend to practice a few (very) simple tunes.

Any of you guys play acoustic slide? Any tips/resources I should look into?

4073

I play acoustic slide - I have an old Gibson-made Kalamazoo archtop that I keep tuned in Open G. Fun to have to pull out when I am in a slide mood, or want to play acoustic versions of Keith Richards licks.

Initial thoughts:

  • Yeah, I use a brass slide. I have a nice heavy one; I think I have posted about this before on this thread - I got it from this Australian slide genius named Kirk Lorange. It is really designed for sliders who use their pinky (there is NO “correct finger” use what works!).

With acoustics, I believe the different masses of different slides contributes a lot to tone, so be prepared to try a bunch. But in my experience, mass matters.

With a resonator, the biggest issue for me is palm muting: using the fat edge of your palm to rest on the bridge of the guitar and mute the strings. Reso’s have a cover - the “strap” which covers the bridge to protect you from your palm “forcing in” the speaker cone by mistake.

But muting strings, with that hand AND with your non-slide fretting fingers behind the slide is really important. So, with a reso, you have to get a feel for how to “jam” your palm up against the strap so you can mute the strings without resting them on the bridge.

Beyond that, I am sure if you check youtube you can find some great slide licks. When I am in a slide mood, nothing else will do!

4074

This guy gives a couple of good lessons. My biggest problem was muting out strings that you don’t want contributing to the sound. The simple expedient for me for palm muting was to change how I hold the pick when doing slide. Rather than holding it between the pads of the first finger and thumb, I move it to between the first knuckle and the thumb pad. What this does is force you to rotate your picking hand towards your body, which brings the base thumb pad much closer to the strings. For me, anyway.

4075

Yes, that’s a big reason I ended up using an archtop for slide: the raised bridge is easy to mute on, and the string pull on an archtop gives a bit of a trampoline feel. And the punched Mids of an archtop work great for slide - don’t know why it isn’t more common…

4076

Nice, I was thinking about one of those recently, but opted to get a steel guitar (instead of the brass one :slight_smile: ). They have a really warm sound for a resonator. They have a nice size, too. My only complaint when playing one was the 12th fret neck join, but that’s a small complaint. I don’t spend too much time up that high on the acoustic’s neck.

Brass/steel/glass/bone/plastic slides all sound different. If I wasn’t so much of a klutz, I’d probably use a glass one more often, but all of my non-metal slides seem to lead short, brutal lives. The harder materials normally cause less noise from drag when you move it on the strings, and the hardness of the material changes the tone a lot. Even the brass and chrome slides I have sound slightly different from one another. Pvc and bone have their own, kind of honky, muted sound (kind of like a muted trumpet). I’ll try to use just about anything I can stick my finger in and make a

That said, I keep returning to the same $10 brass Dunlop slide that I bought when I was a teenager, or one of the replacements I bought when it was mislaid. Electric or acoustic, it just sounds right to me, and I’m faster with it than with a heavier slide.

Heavier strings will deflect a lot less when playing with a slide, and allow you to press the slide harder against the strings when you want to. Most of my preference for heavier strings is just that, a preference. In the case of slide guitar, it really does make it easier to play the thing. The easiest guitar I have to play slide on is an electric 12 string. The resistance of all the strings allows you to have it set with normal electric guitar action, but still really go to town on slide without banging the frets. The other option is put super lights on it, and tune up to open A. High string tension works in your favor on slide.

Other than that, the only real advice I have on how to play slide is: Once you learn a riff in an open G/A style tuning, you can play that riff one string further to the bass side when you’re in an open E/D style tuning (of course, you’ve transposed the key).

Oh, and try a thumb pick. Having the extra fingers available for picking and muting is the best thing since sliced bread.

4077

The same reason not many people use an acoustic archtop in general: Despite their other fine qualities, archtops usually aren’t very loud. Well, until you put a pickup in it. :slight_smile:

4078

Woah, missed the edit, but that was a weird dangler. It should be:

I’ll try to use just about anything I can stick my finger in and make it a slide. Lots of things will work, in a pinch. Bic lighters sound awfully good, but they’re awkward to hold on the neck. Zippo lighters also have the same qualities. I’ve never been able to get an acceptable sound from a knife, myself.

4079

The first time my teacher decided we were going to work on slide technique, I didn’t have a slide and he’d forgotten his. So I dug two canoli tubes out of a kitchen drawer and we used those for the lesson. They worked, but they’re 6" long, so a bit awkward. :smiley:

4080

Yeah, I have a thread from years ago where I made my own heavy brass slide by getting a piece of brass plumbing and cutting the threaded ends off and polishing them smooth.

scabpicker, nice point about heavier gauge to reduce deflection/bounce of the string. Another reason to consider archtops - they like heavier gauges vs. flattops. Interesting that you would comment on them not being loud; archtops got popular in the jazz age because of how loud they can be. They favor a style of playing called a jazz chop: sharp down strokes on cool partial jazz chords. With their punchy midrange, they bark out nice and loud. That’s why Count Basie had guitarist Freddie Green anchor his rhythm section…

4081

Since the thread was revived, I thought I’d mention that we went to hear Buster Williams play last night. He’s 72 and knows more about cool and smooth bass playing than I could imagine possible. He’s younger in this video, but it still seems effortless for him.

4082

WordMan well, I put the qualifier “usually” in there. Some of the really nice carved top guitars can have thin tops, and be pretty loud. But a lot of arch tops are pressed ones, and they’re usually not loud at all.

But aside from that, generally an arch top’s less loud than a flat top, and the resonators were adopted because neither was generally loud enough for solo work in a band context. You can plunk away at non-resonators and the chunky attack may get through, but a horn or fiddle section is going to have to be careful not to drown you out even then. An exuberant drummer can make any unamplified guitar a nice decoration in short order.

4083

You’ve mentioned those before, I think. I didn’t think about it earlier, but they’re probably stainless steel, which can mean one of thousands of alloys of different hardnesses. I haven’t tried even one of them. Stainless is a unknown territory for me (other than my attempts with knives), I will have to try that material, just to know how it is.

Seriously, Johnny Winter was a god, and used a chopped off piece of drum hardware for years. Try anything is my motto when it comes to slides. I tried my Zippo (chromed brass) after watching Syd Barret do it. It sounded great, but was very limiting due to you having to hold it. You can always switch back to the last one you liked if the experiment doesn’t work.