The Great Ongoing Guitar Thread

[scabpicker]

I spent a long time never being in love with the “gold standard” of bass guitars, the Fender Precision. I’ve always admired folks who played them. Most great bass players used them for something, even if it wasn’t their main guitar. It’s a bit limited, chords suck on them in a way that they don’t suck on other basses, but when you want that particular thump, nothing else really gets all the way there. Ive had more than one Jazz (and other basses, I have a few) that would get you close when you listened to it by itself, but in a mix it was never quite the same thing.

I didn’t really resist owning one because it’s kind of a one trick pony, I have amps that are one trick ponies. It was because I could barely play the goddamn things. Every one of them I played had a neck that was just on the other side of usable for my stubby fingers. I’d played some nice ones at stores, and on auditions I’ve had very nice old ones offered because they didn’t like the Squier (or other) name on the headstock of my Jazz copy. I might have gotten the job, but it was in spite of the chunky neck on that loaner bass.

With my current band, they might not have been critical of my tone, but we went through the whole stable of my basses looking for the “right” sound. The guitarist had an 80’s “Made In Japan” P-bass he offered to bring, so I said “sure, they’re simple parts, I’m sure I can manage”. Damn, it’s work to make it fit in some songs, but in others it’s perfect, just slam away at the thing. It’s got the perfect hollow thump and moan. And! I can actually play it! It’s still as wide as any Precision, but the profile is pretty thin and almost comfy. Penis ensues.

But, the bastard won’t sell it to me without getting me to sell a beloved pickup to him. He’s had it since the 80’s, as long as I’ve had the pickup, so I don’t blame him, but there’s a part of me that must have one now. Plus, I break strings. So, I’d need a backup anyway. I’ve alternated out my Jazzes and my Mustang as backups or the main bass out for a while, but that Precision is the right sound for 90% of our songs. So I always go back to it for shows, even if I still somewhat dread playing one or two of our songs on it due to the effort necessary to control it and play on it.

Well, I have been perusing basses of the same era/serial number for awhile, and decided that was what I wanted for my 20th anniversary present. There’s bassically (heh, yes that was on purpose) two very similar neck profiles from that era, with two very similar bodies. So I was really only looking at the look of the thing after identifying that it was an E series. I probably ended up over-paying, but I eventually settled on this one. It’s pickguard has been replaced with a black one instead of white, and the ashtray doesn’t look like an actual Fender one (I’ll probably remove it, anyway), but if it’s even close to the Lake Placid Blue one that I’ve been beating on for a couple of years now, I’ll be happy.

[aceplace57]

Sweet bass.

It’s always fun adding a new instrument to the collection.

Your first band rehearsal will tell you if it’s a keeper.

Congrats

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@scabpicker

I spent a long time never being in love with the “gold standard” of bass guitars, the Fender Precision. I’ve always admired folks who played them. Most great bass players used them for something, even if it wasn’t their main guitar. It’s a bit limited, chords suck on them in a way that they don’t suck on other basses, but when you want that particular thump, nothing else really gets all the way there. Ive had more than one Jazz (and other basses, I have a few) that would get you close when you listened to it by itself, but in a mix it was never quite the same thing.

Yeah! Somewhere on YouTube is a video of a guy comparing a whole host of basses, alone and in a mix. Pretty much all of them sound good alone (OK, the Music Man sounded too midrange-focused for my taste), but once you add the rest of the instruments, the Precision stands out like none other.

I’m not a fan of tuxedo guitars; they should be all white or all black. That one looks real good to me.

A while back I picked up a used Cort Arona, because wow, that’s a lot of bass for what I paid. I later learned that management at Cort is known for setting new standards in draconian oppression of their labor force. Kind of takes the fun out of owning the thing, and it abides in its case.

[scabpicker]

@aceplace57

Sweet bass.

It’s always fun adding a new instrument to the collection.

Your first band rehearsal will tell you if it’s a keeper.

Congrats

Thankya! Yeah, the first rehearsal will be the test. We record the second week of Oct. I hope it makes the cut. I have the blue precision to make due with if it doesn’t, but this one’s mine!

I haven’t even had it in my hands yet, it shipped out today. I’m terrible at waiting, it’s torture.

@Enter_the_Flagon

Yeah! Somewhere on YouTube is a video of a guy comparing a whole host of basses, alone and in a mix. Pretty much all of them sound good alone (OK, the Music Man sounded too midrange-focused for my taste), but once you add the rest of the instruments, the Precision stands out like none other.

Yeah, I knew that the mix was important before I went through every bass I had and ended up borrowing one from the guitarist. I used my Squier Jazz on our last record and we were happy with it (you can fix a lot with an EQ, after all). But on the newer set of songs in rough recordings, the Precision won easily.

@Enter_the_Flagon

I’m not a fan of tuxedo guitars; they should be all white or all black. That one looks real good to me.

Hehehe, I’m with you on that. All of the standard MIJ Precisions from that era came with white pick guards. I’m not a fan of white guitars (I’m a messy, messy person), but I could have gotten several colors with original and custom pick guards for less than this bass. Its looks were what motivated me to spend extra. I’m glad you like it.

@Enter_the_Flagon

A while back I picked up a used Cort Arona, because wow, that’s a lot of bass for what I paid. I later learned that management at Cort is known for setting new standards in draconian oppression of their labor force. Kind of takes the fun out of owning the thing, and it abides in its case.

Wow, I wasn’t aware of Cort’s behavior. That’s painful, because the guitar didn’t do anything, and you didn’t pay the oppressors directly, but it’s still a symbol of that behavior. It’s terrible to let their pain go for absolutely nothing, not even a pleasurable guitar. But I can also see why you don’t feel good about playing it.

[scabpicker]

The Precision arrived yesterday. It’s the dark twin of the pacific blue one. It’s got the same neck profile and fret board feel, and it’s the same weight down to the ounce. The only difference in how they play is the blue one has been played a LOT, and it doesn’t look like this one has seen much action. The back of the neck is still shiny and a little grabby in comparison. That won’t be a problem for long. So far, it’s exactly what I expected, maybe a little better than. I love it.

The complete revelation in this bass has been the strings. When I took it out of the gig bag and saw it was strung with flats, I thought “Hmm, I really like dead strings, but flats are probably going to be a bit much.” I played it back to back with the blue bass to compare them, and the one with flats was brighter! It’s nowhere near as bright as a set of new roundwounds, but it was brighter than the dead ones I was comparing them to, and still aggressive. Nothing like the sound I associate with flats (think James Jamerson). I guessed it was probably strung with a new set of strings…maybe? Nope, the ball ends were obviously D’Addario’s painted ball ends, and they’ve been on there long enough for the paint to be chipping off them. So, after a little reading, I find that D’Addario chromes are apparently the brightest flatwound strings on the market, and they keep their tone longer than most flatwounds, and flatwounds have a reputation for keeping their tone.

So, just a little bit of brightness, but not enough to take your head off when you use fuzz, and that sound pretty much never changes? As a bonus I can be lazy and not lift my fingers when changing positions? Oh yeah, I have a new favorite string now. I’m also now a walking “P-Bass with flats!” stereotype of a bass player. Oh well.

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@scabpicker

The Precision arrived yesterday… I love it.

So, that’s good news!

(think James Jamerson).

Gladly! I’m suddenly inspired to listen to some Marvin Gaye.

Pretty sure I once read a claim by Mr. J that he still had the original strings on his '62 Precision, after like, 20 years, or something like that.

To me, he’s the best.

I guessed it was probably strung with a new set of strings…maybe? Nope, the ball ends were obviously D’Addario’s painted ball ends, and they’ve been on there long enough for the paint to be chipping off them.

You’d make a good detective, sir.

Ah, but for the one thing you missed! The installer of those strings boiled them, ala Eddie Van Huesen, before installing them in his bass, therefore the murderer must have been the professor, in the parlor, with the old strings!

So, after a little reading, I find that D’Addario chromes are apparently the brightest flatwound strings on the market, and they keep their tone longer than most flatwounds, and flatwounds have a reputation for keeping their tone.

That’s good info!

I’ve been wondering what kind of strings to put on my practice bass, an Ibanez cheapie with a 32" scale and a serious neck dive problem.* I like the feel of flatwound strings, but I’m no James Jamerson (lots of us guitarists get into bass thinking “It’s only four strings, how hard can it be?” before reality sets in), and nearly every flatwound player I’ve seen was about a million times better at bass than I am, so I don’t feel qualified to even strike the pose of sounding like a flatwound player.

But I’ve absolutely fallen in like with the 32" scale bass; when your choices are the standard 34" (too long! Am I an orangutan?) and the 30" (feels like a toy, sounds like a fart!), the 32" feels like the best of both worlds.

I’m also now a walking “P-Bass with flats!” stereotype of a bass player. Oh well.

Your beret is in the mail.

*For anyone unfamiliar, a guitar or bass will experience “neck dive” when careful consideration isn’t given by the designer to balancing the weight properly when the instrument is hanging around your neck by the strap - the weight of the long neck exerts a torque that the weight of the shorter body may not overcome, so when you let go the neck, it ‘dives’ towards the floor. Electric basses, with their longer necks, are especially prone to this malady, and that’s one reason they look the way the do, with their (often) elongated top horn, where the strap attaches - it moves the strap’s pivot point closer to the bass’ effective center of mass, for better balance.

[scabpicker]

@Enter_the_Flagon

Pretty sure I once read a claim by Mr. J that he still had the original strings on his '62 Precision, after like, 20 years, or something like that.

To me, he’s the best.

Hehehe, He apparently sent a broken string back to LaBella hoping it could be welded back together. Truly a great bass player, and very attached to that set of strings. He also wouldn’t let anyone change the setup on that Precision, which apparently had what everyone else considered an excessive amount of bow.

The best part of Jamerson is that none of those parts are technically challenging, his fingers don’t do anything mine can’t. The crazy part about him is that he’s got so much damn creativity, timing and taste. In terms of what his brain is doing, that’s one daunting bass player to compare yourself to.

@Enter_the_Flagon

You’d make a good detective, sir.

Ah, but for the one thing you missed! The installer of those strings boiled them, ala Eddie Van Huesen, before installing them in his bass, therefore the murderer must have been the professor, in the parlor, with the old strings!

I’ve actually talked to the seller about that since I made that post. Turns out the strings were put on after he got it and had it set up, and they only have a few recording sessions on them. So they’re still fairly new, which explains them still being a bit brighter than my intentionally deadend roundwounds.
And I used to boil my old strings until I could see the core, then I’d trash them. Realizing that I liked the sound of dead strings was fortuitously cheaper and less work.
Mmmm, Van Heusen, a nice pair of slacks.

@Enter_the_Flagon

I’ve been wondering what kind of strings to put on my practice bass, an Ibanez cheapie with a 32" scale and a serious neck dive problem.* I like the feel of flatwound strings, but I’m no James Jamerson (lots of us guitarists get into bass thinking “It’s only four strings, how hard can it be?” before reality sets in), and nearly every flatwound player I’ve seen was about a million times better at bass than I am, so I don’t feel qualified to even strike the pose of sounding like a flatwound player.

But I’ve absolutely fallen in like with the 32" scale bass; when your choices are the standard 34" (too long! Am I an orangutan?) and the 30" (feels like a toy, sounds like a fart!), the 32" feels like the best of both worlds.

Awww, I love my 30" shorties. So damn easy to play, and some sound really good! My Mustang is a bright, bite-y sounding bastard. But yeah, the 32" scale is pretty sweet. I can’t believe that folks build 36" scale basses.

All that aside, I’d advise grabbing a set of these strings to any bass player unless they’re fixated on slapping. I don’t know if they made me a better player, but I was instantly more comfortable. The strings are where the rubber meets the road, after all.

Plus, I’m sure worse players than either of us have donned a fedora and plunked away tunelessly at a P-Bass with flats. You’ll probably be sprucing up the ghetto.

@Enter_the_Flagon

Your beret is in the mail.

Well, at least it’s not a gimme cap. I look like I should be pumping gas in those, and that pretty much isn’t even a job anymore.

@Enter_the_Flagon

*For anyone unfamiliar, a guitar or bass will experience “neck dive” when careful consideration isn’t given by the designer to balancing the weight properly when the instrument is hanging around your neck by the strap - the weight of the long neck exerts a torque that the weight of the shorter body may not overcome, so when you let go the neck, it ‘dives’ towards the floor. Electric basses, with their longer necks, are especially prone to this malady, and that’s one reason they look the way the do, with their (often) elongated top horn, where the strap attaches - it moves the strap’s pivot point closer to the bass’ effective center of mass, for better balance.

See: Gibson EB-0 or EB-3. I love them, but even though they are usually short scale you either need a wide strap or have to keep your hand on the neck constantly to prevent diving.

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@scabpicker

The best part of Jamerson is that none of those parts are technically challenging, his fingers don’t do anything mine can’t. The crazy part about him is that he’s got so much damn creativity, timing and taste. In terms of what his brain is doing, that’s one daunting bass player to compare yourself to.

The only way I could agree with this any more is if we were the same person, and maybe not even then; and anyway we’d likely both get banned from the board for violating the sock puppet rule.

I guess a lot of us have heard the story of how Jamerson recorded his part for Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On,” but for those who haven’t:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/bass/bass-legends-motown-session-giant-james-jamerson-508816

*One of the most famous stories about him was featured in the 2002 film, Standing In The Shadows Of Motown which tells the story of The Funk Brothers. Apparently Marvin Gaye was desperate to have James’ bass work on his track, What’s Going On, but he wasn’t there for the session.

A quick scouring of the local bars found him somewhat worse for wear but they brought him back to the studio. However he was so drunk he couldn’t stand and it is said that he played his part whilst lying on his back in the studio. He played a song he was unfamiliar with and the first take was the one they used!*

Needless to say, the playing on that song (IMO) is brilliant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M

Awww, I love my 30" shorties. So damn easy to play, and some sound really good! My Mustang is a bright, bite-y sounding bastard.

Well, I do sometimes hyperbolate.

Actually, so many times have I heard that the particular thump of a 30" bass is a favorite among many music producers, that I assume it must be the truth. And of course, Jack Bruce and Paul McCartney seemed to do OK with theirs, I’d say.

All that aside, I’d advise grabbing a set of these strings to any bass player unless they’re fixated on slapping. I don’t know if they made me a better player, but I was instantly more comfortable. The strings are where the rubber meets the road, after all.

Noted and memorized.

[rat_avatar]

Obviously with short scale the higher harmonics are less energetic but I would call them in a thick dark tones. Some circuits do adjust for this though (Jaguar Guitar).

Aren’t mustangs basses 30"? (Edit oops misread what was being said)

Chris Morrissey in this Margaret Glaspy NPR video is the sound I think of my head for the valve Mustang Bass sound.

Margaret Glaspy: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert

John Lennon also played a George’s Bass VI (30" 6 string) on Helter Skelter etc…

Back in the saddle again is probably the non-chord double stop sound I think of for the bass VI but I guess that could be considered farty

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@rat_avatar

Chris Morrissey in this Margaret Glaspy NPR video is the sound I think of my head for the valve Mustang Bass sound.

https://youtu.be/uxglzsJkBJg

That’s a genuine thud, there, that is.

That’s the first time I’ve heard Margaret Glaspy’s music, and I like it. On a hunch, I googled her name to see if the Telecaster clone she’s playing was a short-scale (it does have a kind of raspy quality to it), and no, it probably isn’t - it belongs to her boyfriend, Julian Lage. Yep, that Julian Lage. Small world, huh?

Back in the saddle again is probably the non-chord double stop sound I think of for the bass VI but I guess that could be considered farty

Good call! Farty it may be, but damn if it doesn’t really work in that context.

[rat_avatar]

@Enter_the_Flagon

That’s a genuine thud, there, that is.

That’s the first time I’ve heard Margaret Glaspy’s music, and I like it. On a hunch, I googled her name to see if the Telecaster clone she’s playing was a short-scale (it does have a kind of raspy quality to it), and no, it probably isn’t - it belongs to her boyfriend, Julian Lage. Yep, that Julian Lage. Small world, huh?

Most of the sound in that video is from a vintage Fender Champ, which was also borrowed Julian Lage. She moved to one of the 68 Deluxe Reverb modified reissues I think, and that slight twist will probably be a future classic too IMHO.

I love Tiny Desk mostly because of personal preferences finding most modern albums over processed for taste.

While just preferences, and not being in the target market; the brutal honesty and connection of Daughter just doesn’t work for me on their produced albums.

Daughter: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert

Probably just behind the curb having been* too cool* for unplugged back in the day.

[rat_avatar]

Random other guitar topic, I picked up a Martin OM-21 Reimagined a couple of months ago after wanting a 000 because my dreadnoughts always get in the way of my octave below bass voice. (not that my range is ever usable)

I realized that I haven’t even looked at another one of my acoustic guitars and that means they should go up for sale. While I obviously seriously connected with this particular guitar, I have been continually reminded by others I play with that at least in my circle people tend to buy dreadnoughts because they think that is what they need.

While I may just be slow here, remember to look at the 000 and 00 sized guitars, they still have a big sound in a mix and have the advantage of being playable sitting back on a couch.

I never could get around the fancy gingerbread of the higher spec models which doesn’t fit my personality so the O-21 is perfect for that while not being a Mahogany sound.

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@rat_avatar

Random other guitar topic, I picked up a Martin OM-21 Reimagined a couple of months ago after wanting a 000 because my dreadnoughts always get in the way of my octave below bass voice. (not that my range is ever usable)…

I never could get around the fancy gingerbread of the higher spec models which doesn’t fit my personality so the O-21 is perfect for that while not being a Mahogany sound.

Congrats! I have to admit that after many years of playing only electric, I’ve only played one Martin, and that was a long time ago, so when people talk about individual model designations, I have no idea - can’t tell a P38 from a V8 from a B52. Those are all guitars, right?

So in order to fight my own ignorance, I googled up this page, which explains most of the mystery, and rather efficiently, via a few easily-digested charts:

https://www.martinguitar.com/features-materials/sizetype/

So it appears that an OM-21 would be 15" wide and 4 1/8" deep, right? Not so big that it could be mistaken by me for a cello or a rhinocerous?

Suddenly, it all makes sense! Enjoy.

[wguy123]

When I picked up playing again four years ago, I still had the amp I bought when I was 18: A Fender Super Twin. That was a 180 watt behemoth that no longer worked for me. I sold it and replaced it with a Yamaha THR10. That little amp has been great: Great and varied tones at lowish volumes which is how I mainly play. However, it doesn’t get loud, at all. There are times I want some volume. So, I’ve been looking into lower wattage tube amps. My main guitar is a Tele and I do prefer the cleaner/crunchy tone so I was leaning towards the Fender Princeton or Blues Jr. Last night I saw that Blackstar is discontinuing the Artist series so the Artist 15 and 30’s are steeply discounted. I watched a ton of videos, read reviews…and pulled the trigger.

[aceplace57]

That’s an Awesome amp choice.

Which model did you order?

I see the Artist 30 has 6L6 output tubes and dual 12" speakers. That’s a lot of Amp for a home.

[aceplace57]

The preamp tubes are ECC83 (12AX7).

Overall very common and easily purchased tubes.

The Artist 15 uses the same tubes with a 12" speaker.

I’d suggest buying a full set of JJ’s from Tube Depot and keep as spares. You will eventually need them and they’ll just cost more in a few years.

[wguy123]

@aceplace57

That’s an Awesome amp choice.

Which model did you order?

I see the Artist 30 has 6L6 output tubes and dual 12" speakers. That’s a lot of Amp for a home.

I got the 15. That’s plenty for me, even if I start playing with some friends.

And now I wait. Next week is so far away. :eek:

[aceplace57]

You’ll have a lot of fun with it. The Artist 15 is a great choice.

btw the 6L6 are sold as a matched pair. $60 for Groove Tubes and $20 for a couple JJ’s 12AX7. Not bad for a full set of backup tubes.

[CookingWithGas]

A direct input (DI) box, IIRC, is intended to be a front-end pre-amp for an acoustic instrument, typically for going straight into the board. They will often have eq, maybe a notch filter. I am interested in something like the Baggs Venue DI.

My Eastman archtop is prone to acoustic feedback in some situations (it seems to depend on the room and amp placement) and a 4- or 5-section eq with a tunable notch filter is just what the doctor ordered, but I don’t what to put something inline that is going to degrade my tone, and I don’t know what this will sound like into an amp (Roland Cube 80) rather than into the board/PA.

[scabpicker]

(gigantic, rambling post deleted before submission)

I’ve gone direct a lot – both live and in recording sessions with both a “regular” electric guitar and a bass guitar. If you’re going direct, the preamp before the direct input is more important than the DI itself.

I’d advise you to get a DI with an adjustable output level for the balanced output. It won’t affect what’s coming out of your amp. If a DI box does affect what’s coming out of the amp any more than a few inches of wire, it’s defective. The balanced output that you’re sending to the board should be at a usable level, though. They want to reproduce what you send to them, which I advise you to create/shape with a preamp. You can get a fancy preamp, or just fool with the settings on a distortion pedal until you get what you like. Heck, really good delay pedals have an adjustable preamp (and distortion pedals have been built to copy the nice qualities of the preamps of delay units).

But if you’re gonna go DI, think about your preamp. That’s the sound the sound guy is going to get to work with. If you use pedals, you’re probably using more than one preamp already. Putting one as a master at the beginning or the end of the chain might not be a bad idea.