hahaha i find this humorous. naw. they can get Big macs almost anywhere in the world…and there really is nothing special about “AMerican style hot dogs”
You might notice that part of the name of this forum is “debates.” If you merely wanted to see people expressing opinions, then the “In My Humble Opinion” forum might have been a better choice. Your views are being attacked because they do not appear to be very substantive.
You say that there is opposition, but the reasons you give for there being opposition are erroneous and the parties who have expressed opposition are not the people who actually live in the neighborhood where the proposed center is located.
You say that the center should be moved, but you have failed to address the issue that the Imam has already agreed to the possibility of relocating while futher failing to recognize that none of the opponents have taken any steps to find a way to help the Imam finance the relocation.
aight. Ok he has agreed to move. then he should do it. set up a fund or a donation fund and I am sure that he will get money to move. He can agree to the possibility, but doing it is what really matters.
You proof read what you write, right? Whining babies get concession from center to move if said crying babies cough up money. Babies do not cough up money and center is now at fault for not getting money for babies to give to center to move.
Huh?
Have you offered to donate money? I mean, it obviously means a lot to you. Money talks.
No, there’s actually an easily identifiable correct side in this case. It’s the side that doesn’t see merit in kowtowing to ignorant, hateful bullies.
Well, it’s a mighty fine thing, in my opinion, that the Constitution, along with the immigration laws, differ.
I would gladly welcome someone whose primary reason for coming to my country is our Constitution.
What, exactly, would be the “middle ground” on this issue? An Islamic group wants to build at a certain address. A bunch of other people (who don’t live in the area) don’t think he should be allowed to build there. How do you create a compromise, here? Only build half the building?
Oh, it’s the location? So, if someone wanted to build a church on that location, it would receive the same complaints? No? Well, that’s a pretty good indicator that the reason people are protesting is, indeed, because it’s a “mosque,” and not because of its location.
Man, do you have any idea how much work it would take to do that? You’ve got to set up the fund, advertise it, hire people to manage it, get the proper paperwork made out so that it’s taxed appropriately. Plus, how long is it going to take to get that much money? Real estate in Manhattan doesn’t go cheap, and I’m guessing they picked the location they’re at least in part because it was the most affordable they could find. How long are they expected to wait while this fund fills up for their move? It’s almost certainly going to take several years - this organization has been in New York for thirty years already, and they’ve only now got enough funds to build their community center. How many more years should they have to wait to satisfy loud-mouthed assholes who don’t even live in the neighborhood? If the fund never fills up enough to cover the expense of moving the project, at what point can they go back to their original plan - assuming, of course, that after waiting some undetermined number of years for the fund to fill up, they can still get into the original property, at the original price.
Does that honestly seem like a reasonable expectation to put on these people?
And I’ll just add to the previous couple posters is saying that I can’t really think of a better reason to want to be an American than our Constitution. Certainly, that’s a more noble reason to emigrate here than, say, wanting a better paying job, or a sunnier beach to retire on.
Look ultimately the hate I have for Sharia law punishment is great. It’s a vile evil thing, any deity that would produce it would be more evil, and rotten and deserving of spit, urine, and contempt than Hitler in terms of suffering caused.
However to ban the Mosque is of the same flavor of extremism and evil as Sharia law enforcement. People, everyone, Christian, Muslim, Jewish Amish, whatever the hell they are need to understand you can be Muslim without enforcing sharia law just as you can be Jewish or Christian without stoning people for wearing cotton polyester blends.
Put another way you can wear a head scarf, grow a beard and churn butter, or wear a Kippah without expecting other people to.
Ultimately the way a person interprets their religion is a reflection of their character. Both Fred Phelps and Mr. Rogers interpreted the same documents.
Are you a Fred Phelps or a Mr. Rogers?
The reason you are being attacked is that your position is factually incorrect, morally indefensible, legally wrong, and repulsive to American Consitutional philosophy. Moreover, you, a person who cannot be affected by where a community center is built, think you can tell the members of the community that is affected what they should do! How about a bunch of New Yorkers try to run your town and tell you what you should think about things without ever setting foot there? Sound good?
Quite often that which the Constitution requires does not satisfy everyone. Luckily “making bigots happy” is not the definition of what is Constitutional. As others have said, I can think of no better reason for a person to come to the United States, than out of the desire to live under the protection of the U.S. Constitution.
I think they should swap the old building where the Muslims are already praying for the new Freedom Tower & rename the tower The Cordoba Victory Mosque at Ground Zero. Let the WTC owners deal with an old warehouse. Yeah.
Or we could leave well enough alone.
Absolutely agree. Completely. Do we have freedom of religion and freedom of expression in this country anymore or don’t we?
Freedom of expression insofar as this is not really a mosque after all. Freedom of religion so far as it may as well be, and that is what the fear mongers and bigots were calling it.
“If you listen to fools, the mob rules” - Black Sabbath
Wrong. The AMERICAN thing to do, would be to accord them the same freedoms and respect we demand for ourselves. This is NOT a “both sides are wrong” or a “neither side is right” situation, except in the eyes of bigots and their apologists. One side is clearly wrong.
“If they want to build a mosque, they can go back to their own country, dig a hole in the sand and build it there.” - annonymous
for the record, this is not my quote nor my opinion
Cute, except this IS their country. They’re Americans.
So why in heavens’ name post it at all? Just chumming the water a bit is my guess.
Quotes from anonymous morons are a legitimate tactic in under-bridge debates.
Do not accuse other posters of trolling in Great Debates.
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That said, MinkyBinks735, returning to a dormant thread after nine days for the sole purpose of posting hateful, (and dishonest), glurge, is pretty much a textbook case of trolling, so you would be well to refrain from repeating such jerkish actions.
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My gut reaction is 100% that the community center should be built. But I also have a deep seated feeling that the Carmelite convent at Auschwitz should not have been built. I don’t know how I distinguish the two, apart from possibly a sense of Papal complicity in the Holocaust itself, whether directly at the time, or because of the Vatican’s involvement in the athmosphere of hatred for Judaism that made eliminationist anti-semitism possible.
Obviously there are geographical differences - there is a lot more space in Poland than in Lower Manhatten. But that would leave me saying that it would be better if the community center could be built elsewhere, but whoops, there is no space. And I don’t feel that way - I do feel it should be built as planned.
So help me out here - what is the difference?