I’m watching a 3 hour cut of The Hobbit and it just occurred to me: Where and when does Gandalf meet Thorin? Gandalf picks up this completely non-battleworthy hobbit from the middle of nowhere and asks Thorin to trust him on the 14th member of the party even though Thorin has severe reservations. That tells me Thorin already trusts Gandalf and they didn’t just meet up somewhere. This was before Gandalf gives Thorin the key to the hidden door that he got from Thorin’s father, so Thorin can’t use old familial connections as an excuse to do what he says. What did Gandalf do for Thorin that he’s fine sharing the details of his plan and his map?
Also, Gandalf is kind of an angel but he can’t foretell the future right? Well he sorta of could with the whole sparing of Gollum thing. But why Bilbo? He’s part Took and takes to adventures on that side of his family, yes, but why not just get a Took? Why not get a hobbit that presumably knows how to fight, or was anything else other than a typical, housebound hobbit? I can’t argue with the results, but its not like Gandalf did a lot of research on Bilbo, having just met him and talked about what a good morning it was.
Are your questions relative to the book or to the Jackson movies? Relative to the book we could look at all of Tolkien’s works and try to understand Gandalf and Thorin’s motivations. Relative to the movies we could try to figure out if anything in them makes sense.
Gandalf, as an angel (Tolkien’s word is “ainu”) took part in the great Music, that sang the entire history of the World before it was created. No mind but God’s (Illuvatar’s) can encompass the entire Music at once, but it does still grant all of the Ainur some measure of foresight. Say, if you like, that Gandalf gets hunches that very often turn out to be correct.
While in the Shire, Gandalf is just the mysterious and somewhat disreputable fellow who shows up from time to time, in the bigger world, he’s well-known as a wise and powerful wizard, who has a personal relationship with the ruling class families in every realm. Thorin probably heard tales from his father and from the older members of his own party about Gandalf sufficient to convince him that if the old coot says this Hobbit will be useful for the mission, then he likely will be.
Mostly, my question has to do with what makes Thorin trust Gandalf so thoroughly. Nothing in the films or the book suggest that Gandalf deserves this kind of trust from Thorin. He’s not even officially part of the company, with no share of the treasure if successful (though Gandalf would probably turn it down if offered). It just seems like Thorin met Gandalf and immediately laid bare all his plans to him and asked him for help, even if they initially thought nothing of Bilbo’s abilities. I don’t know why Thorin trusts him so.
But had Bilbo exhibited any signs to being able to handle such an adventure? He’s a bit more adventurous than a typical hobbit, but that’s not really saying much. What made Gandalf think Bilbo could trek hundreds of miles away with strange dwarves and kill a dragon?
If you want this question answered according to the book, Gandalf isn’t just a wizard. He’s an angelic being, sent to Middle-earth as an emissary of God along with four other wizards. Some of the creatures of Middle-earth know this and all of the creatures respect or at least fear him. You would know that if Gandalf says that something is the best way to do something, then there’s a pretty good chance that it is the best way. Presumably he has a supernatural ability to tell who the best person to bring along on a quest is. Sorry, but for some things in the book you just have to accept these assumptions to be able to appreciate the book. In the movies, well, who knows why one would accept anything that happens in them?:
Thorin knows who Gandalf is… and it wouldn’t surprise me that one of Gandalf’s “things” is that people immediately trust him - isn’t one of his things is to inspire people?
“But you are also a Took - did you know that your great great grandfather…”
“The same Bilbo that went out searching for Elves, etc …”
“you’ve been comfortable for far too long…”
Gandalf was speaking to the Took side of Bilbo - and that part of his heritage.
Yep. We have clear evidence from the LOTR that Gandalf is well known among Elves and Men, particularly among the ruling elites; it shouldn’t be a surprise that a member of the ruling elite among Dwarves also knows enough of him to trust his word.
This, really. He’s well-known enough among Dwarves that they have their own name for him, as related by Faramir in the “Many are my names among many nations…” speech. Tharkun, give or take a diacritic, although he seems to be known happily enough as “Gandalf” in the Northern nations generally.
Plus, it’s not as if the armies of the world are all clamoring to support Thorin’s claim. A powerful and well-connected wizard wants to help him out? Of COURSE, he’s gonna let the Hobbit tag along.
This is the answer to the OP’s first question. “The Quest of Erebor” is basically Gandalf’s explanation (in response to a question by Frodo) of exactly how and why he helped to put Thorin’s quest in motion. It was essentially an effort on Tolkien’s part to get the story of The Hobbit to make more sense within the larger context of The Lord of the Rings.
“In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.”
Gandalf–or Olórin, as he was when so described–seems to have taken it as his role to inspire hope and courage. This is consistent with what Círdan said when he entrusted Narya to Gandalf: “This is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.”
The purpose of the Istari in Middle Earth was not to wage war themselves, but to guide and help the free peoples in doing so. Gandalf’s way of doing this was to rally people, fanning the embers of courage in their hearts, on scales both grand and personal.
Gandalf seldom did things for just one purpose. While I’m sure he wanted the dragon gone, the more important part–from the perspective of his greater purpose–was the tale that would come of it: an unlikely band of adventurers overcoming hardship, a quiet homebody becoming a hero, a brave warrior slaying a dragon to save his people. A tale like that would spread far and bring dreams of courage and adventure to ordinary folks throughout the lands. Gandalf wanted Bilbo to go, not because he expected Bilbo to succeed (though he had quite a high opinion of the toughness of hobbits), but because he wanted Bilbo to find his courage and become an inspiration to others.
Was it really that important? After all, Bilbo (Took or not) was just a little fellow, an ordinary hobbit of the Shire. Consider this:
If he had not grown up with tales of Bilbo’s adventure, would Frodo have had the courage to take up the Ring and dare Mordor? Would Sam have followed him, if Bilbo’s tales had not inspired him to dream of meeting elves? And if not Frodo and Sam, then who?
I thought Gandalf got the sword (Glamdring?) from the little cache they found along the way. That’s what I remember from the Rankin/Bass Hobbit and I thought that was in the book and the Jackson Film (part 1), as well. It certainly wasn’t a portion of the dragon’s horde, but it seemed to me that everyone was quite willing to let him claim a bit of a reward for tagging along and helping out. And not just unwilling to tell him “no” but quite happy to let him share in the spoils, as if he was part of the team and not a distanced advisor.