He’d never do that. It’s not worth the risk.
One out of sixty children born in the U.S. is Jewish, you know. He might get one of those!
Ok he isn’t a troll…
Still, I don’t see why folks are giving him the time of day.
Now THAT brought tears to my eyes.
One of the greatest honours of my life was playing the role of Raoul Wallenberg in a musical based on his life. One of the hardest jobs in my life was researching that period in history, including speaking to survivors.
That’s interesting definition of ‘nice’ with which I am unfamiliar.
'Cause it’s funny, and I’m bored.
Yeah, my wife said that on our wedding night too.
Because there are probably youth today who don’t have any direct experience with survivors, or the families of survivors. They may have slept throught World History class in school, or may have never read The Diary of Anne Frank or Schindler’s List, or may think the History Channel is best viewed for ghost stories. For whatever reason, the Holocaust is just a footnote to them.
Discussions like this might keep the flame of understanding alive.
So, just out of curiosity…are you calling my Grandfather, my great Uncle, and my Great Grandmother liars when they say that my Great Grandfather was killed in the camps? (My great grandmother is dead now, but was able to escape to Israel with her oldest child; her husband (my great grandfather) and my grandfather were not so lucky.
But they are all liars. It didn’t happen?
That is such a load off my mind. I will tell my Grandmother to calm my Grandfather down because the nightmares that he still wakes up with a couple of times a week are just a dillusion. It never happened. Its a load off my mind I tells ya.
I know I probably shouldn’t have responded, but I really don’t know how not to.
Gurfinkle, how do you respond to the above evidence that the gas chambers were indeed used to kill humans? There’s plenty more too, including forensic testing that was done on the walls of the gas chambers.
p.s. I hope you are enjoying your lunch!
People like you should respond. Let the people who are reading this thread see it.
Gurfinkle has nothing he can say about it. He has a few little nitpicks, things he holds onto with fervent belief regardless of what’s said about it, and that’s all. No real evidence, just the usual misdirections, misrepresentations, and ‘its a conspiracy!’ rantings.
If the Bad Arolsen documents are so secret, how does he know what’s in them?
Has anyone ever claimed that Anne Frank was killed in the gas chambers?
What about all the questions he has yet to address? He appears to be selecting his arguments in this thread very carefully, and ignoring a majority of the posters. Why is he not addressing them?
When I was in college we had a man and woman as guest speakers (we had lots of guest speakers of course). In this case the woman was a concentration camp survivor complete with tattoo. Perhaps more interestingly was the man who was a former guard at a concentration camp.
I do not recall many specifics (was a long time ago…late 80’s) but to the OP I would ask how he would explain that man’s purpose for being there if the Holocaust never happened? Was he lying? Hypnotized into believing he did things he didn’t? I recall they were not being paid to do this beyond having travel expenses covered. For that the man was publicly reviled nearly everywhere he went. Many in our audience let him know in no uncertain terms their revulsion and hatred for the man (the man said he was used to and expected such responses…he did what he did as a sort of expiation for having been a part of that horror show).
Hell of a thing for a person to do for something that never happened.
The existence of the Holocaust and of the mass murder of other groups by the Nazis is an enormous impediment to the revival of widespread anti-Semitism and to racial superiority doctrines in general. Therefore it becomes essential for people pushing these ideas to deny the Holocaust.
By the way, denial has its limits even for a repulsive Holocaust denier like David Irving. Irving eventually conceded that millions of Jews were killed* at the Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka extermination camps - but he’s still holding out for the idea that such murders did not take place at Auschwitz. Poor David’s reputation as a historian remains in tatters, plus now he’s got his fellow Holocaust deniers spitting mad. 
I know Allan is unreceptive to facts unless they are filtered through his preferred sources (as opposed to the vast amount of authoritative evidence which can be sneeringly dismissed as “ADL-controlled”), but there’s still that question that others here have asked and to which he hasn’t replied - what got you onto this Holocaust denial thing, why is it important to you and what do you hope to gain?
I have no idea why this Times’ article shows up in the “European Football” section.* :dubious:
**And while we’re talking football - in reference to Allan’s other genius thread in the Comments on Cecil’s Columns forum, there is absolutely no truth to the rumor that there’s a German football team called the Buchenwald Lampshades.
Like most people here, I had mixed feelings about posting in this thread. But the unfortunate reality is that there are people who deny the Holocaust and I think ignoring them is somehow tacit approval of their misguided position.
While I don’t think any of us will get thru to the OP, there are countless others who read here and may be more receptive to having their ignorance fought.
To be fair I am not sure how far this can go as evidence that the Holocaust happened…at least on this message board.
Make no mistake I believe you and I also fully believe the Holocaust happened. Nevertheless that amounts to second hand anecdotal evidence. Not to mention sometimes people make up stories. To hear them tell it my parents, probably like many people’s parents here, walked to school through the snow uphill both ways all year round. 
(I do not mean to make light of your families tragic experiences…just pointing out some possible counters to your argument)
They didn’t have them in at the same time did they? :smack:
Besides, mockery is a powerful tool. Holocaust Denier, I mock you!
Mock mock mock.
I am a leaf on the wind, watch me mock.
Because you know, eventually, the guy’s going to come to the conclusion that either the entire world is involved in a secret conspiracy to conceal the truth, or that the guy himself is wrong.
Thank you for participating in this thread. Your check from the Giant Conspiracy of Illuminated Everything is in the mail. Mock mock mock.
Of course you should have. Posts like yours are of vital importance.
In the category of “Extremely Tasteless Band Names”, however…
Absolutly. It isn’t good evidence, it is only anecdotal. But he would be calling at least three of my family members liars, and if he wants to do that I want him to come out and say it. It’s an emotional response.
Also, since I don’t care too too much about my anonymity.
Hereis his card at the Museum of Tolerance in LA.
My Great Grandfather wasn’t gassed, which is another hole in my argument, but it doesn’t really matter. There were others who were summarily put to death all around him. He tells storys that would keep anyone awake at night.
Also, if it is the gas chambers in particular that he objects to and wants to get all semantic. The holocaust doesn’t refer to the gassing of jews, it specifically describes the burning of the bodies afterwards.
See a definition of the word holocaust.
Before WWII uses 3 and 4 didn’t exist.
If we are going to get semantic.
They certainly did. That is a big part of what made this particular talk fascinating. Got to see the situation from both viewpoints simultaneously.
The man and woman were purposely doing the show together and sat on the same stage. They were making the rounds all over the United States. I vaguely recall the woman remarking that while she had no love for the man sitting next to her she felt what they were doing important enough to be with him in this fashion and she also felt his desire to expiate his sins, as it were, was genuine and so she could do this with him (I am paraphrasing massively here…as I said been a long time but that is the sense of it).
IIRC he was not a guard wherever she was. I would expect if he had been and knew her there it might be near impossible for her to be within sight of him. I could be wrong on that though.