Punk doesnt’t completely suck, as many say. But it’s not that great. Dont get me wrong, I listen to punk and rock, always have, always will, but generally punk musicians have little talent. Now you can contradict that, by saying, haven’t you heard of bigwig or strung out? Well, they are different. But bands like the pistols and ramones and [old] green day just arent that talented. Name almost any song and, being an intermediate guitarist and beginner bassist, i can play it. Now yes, they were inventive and paved the way for many musicians, and I love listening to their music. But i admit they arent very talented.
gyt_fx - you actually listen to music to admire the talent of the musician? I mean, that’s your main reason for doing so? Why do you bother? If you aren’t listening for some emotional resonance or for the energy or just to shake your arse, why bother listening at all? Why not just read an article about how talented your favourite guitarist is, or watch a video of his fingers running up and down the fretboard?
Who cares if The Ramones aren’t talented? They’re music is filled with such exuberant, pop-filled joy, the perfect balance of snotty rebellion and snotty love of life (a balance which, I think, defines teenagerhood) that it doesn’t matter how many chords they used.
I don’t know why they didn’t just create certificates to give out to other talented musicians (a la piano grades), so you can just download a picture of their certificate. Who needs the music to show how talented someone is?
DougC, could you explain to me how a rap group like The Roots, which is made up of an MC, a drummer, a guitarist, bassist, keyboards, DJ etc. - y’know musical instruments - aren’t actually making music? (and I know I’ve been pre-empted by Wristy McSlashalot)
Actually, this is pointless. If you honestly can’t see that there are musical qualities inherent in rap, whether it’s The Roots using live instuments, or the real dregs of the genre, like Chingy’s Right Thurr, then you obviously have such little knowledge of music that your comments on the subject cannot be taken seriously.
Hmm… okay. I don’t think you got the message of my post.
I listen to punk music. I love punk music. But I am in agreeance [to some degree] with people when they say punk rockers have little talent and aren’t that good.
They have much more talent that black men yelling unmelodically into a microphone to a computer generated beat to a son they wrote about ho’z and money; But they’re just not as talented as other artists.
This isn’t a thread about punk music… it’s a thread about [c]rap music.
Lol… Anytime you say something like “Chingy” or “Right thurr,” its hard to laugh… The guy named his name after the sound of money for crying out loud… How bout I name my band ‘shplop,’ after the sound of me taking a shit.
And then people using bad grammar and sounding like they just cant annunciate a certain word… thurrr… right wurrr? over thurrr! i got somethin in my hurrr! lets drink some burrr.
Much more funny then the “It’s getting hot in herrrrrrrrrrrre”
And yes, The Roots are an exception to the nonmusical thing.
In general, I hate rap and hiphop. There are a few individual songs I like, however…
Funky Cold Medina makes me giggle every time.
Baby Got Back is just a great song.
there may be one or two others, but probably not more than 5.
I’ve had to listen to a lot of it, too… and none of that was on the radio.
I won’t say it isn’t music. I won’t say that some of those people don’t have talent. I’ll just say that stylistically I don’t like it. I don’t like 99.9% of country music, either, and I’m not real big on ska. I generally don’t care for most jazz or blues either. Just personal taste, mind you, and don’t start with the “well you haven’t heard the GOOD stuff…” thing because I have. And in rare instances, I have liked a song or two.
Anyone is welcome to dislike anything they want. Free to be you and me and all that. But some of the rationales people are expressing here are phenomenally ignorant and hypocritical.
A power trio of Linkin Park clones. That’s forging new ground. Generic angst metal. What is angst metal, you ask? One [or more] angry yelling white men screaming into a microphone listened to by poser suburban white kids. Which is apparently the sole audience of the dreaded “©rap”. And what heavy topics are these bands tackling? Let’s look at the diverse array of songs these paragons of Real Music are churning out: Blood Red Summer, Blood Clots And Black Holes, Bleed Black. And you think rap artists have a one-track mind?
I’d think as a guitarist you’d be more offended by the ubiquitous hack rock guitarists who pick up the axe in college just to get laid. They’re really more of an affront to purists such as yourself. Besides, if Eminem spitting into a microphone resonates with more people than your guitar playing, then it’s kind of silly to be offended. I mean you can shake your fist at what you perecieve to be a lack of taste by the masses, but you can’t really be insulted.
If by “Harvard” you mean “Howard” and by “middle class family” you mean born in Harlem and raised in by his mother in scenic Mount Vernon, NY after his father was murdered, then yes. P Diddy’s practically a Kennedy. You can look this stuff up, you know. Personally, I think he’s a man who has an infinitestemal talent to ego ratio, but basing your hatred of an entire genre on incorrect information about one of its contributors is, well, dumb.
Um, what does this have to do with anything, BrianS? So you know an African who hates rap. Well, one of my African friends makes a nice living working for Bad Boy Records. It’s not only anectodal but disturbingly irrelevant. Are we branching out from justifying a dislike or rap to justifying a dislike of African-Americans?
I like a lot of the beats and rhymes in rap music, most notably the Jurassic 5, older Wu-Tang, and Canibus. RZA and Timbaland are brilliant producers.
What I can’t stand is the constant butchering of the English language that goes on, further lowering the level of literacy nationwide. Read over some of the song titles; they go out of their way to spell words like retards.
off topic, but why can mainstream rapstars be extremely mysognistic, homophobic, and racist with impunity and nary a peep from whiny media? The same media that goes apeshit when rockers or even Eminem (being a white rapper) does the same?
I hate lots of different kinds of music, but the reason that rap tops the list is that I’m forced to hear it all the time. As someone else mentioned, it’s used in lots of commercials. And I can’t remember the last time I stopped at a traffic light without hearing it. Hey, I’m just lucky if the jerks shattering their car with it are far enough away from me that it *doesn’t * cause me physical pain.
The slaughter of the English language gets at me, too…I’m a bit anal about spelling…but then I have to admit a lot of the metal artists I’ve enjoyed got creative with their spelling too. Though they didn’t do it with every freakin’ name, song, or album title!
If it’s good enough for Mark Twain, then it’s good enough for any rapper. It’s not just limited to US hip-hop, though. Dizzee Rascal has songs called “Stop Dat” and “Hold Ya Mouf.” Of course, Scottish writer Irvine Welsh makes Dizzee look like he runs every song title through a spell checker. Chapter 17 in his latest novel, Porno, entitled ‘Ootside’, contains sentences like “Last chance the cunt’ll huv tae hear anybody talkin sense, cause thill probably pit some fuckin dippit cunt in the cell wi um.”
Or perhaps intentional misspellings - to convey speech patterns or sounds - is only unacceptable when it’s done by poor black folks making music that you hate?
Music contains rhythmic elements as well as melodic elements. Ironically, fans of (only) rock music - a genre that originally defined itself rhythmically - seem to consider rhythm as something to ignore while you get to the important things (like that wicked guitar solo, dood). Hip hop emphasises the importance of rhythm as a component of music. The important quality in a rappers voice is not the melody, but the rhythm. Criticising a rap for being unmelodic is like criticising a painting because it doesn’t look as real as a photograph. It’s totally missing the point. And as for the “computer generated beat,” remember that someone had to program the beat. Beats don’t just appear. There’s still artistic effort and musical creativity envolved, whether it’s someone programming a computer or ?uestlove banging it out live.
This is pretty much my belief as well. I know it sounds harsh but the fact is that you don’t need to have any proficiency at an instrument or vocally to be a success in rap. Most of the music relies on sample loops of other music, where someone did actually have to play the music on an instrument. Most of the “vocals” are monotone, almost in a speaking voice. Vocal lessons will not make you better at rap and a knowledge of computers will suffice in place of actual musical knowledge. With programs like Acid and Fruity Loops, the “music” can be “composed” simply by clicking and dragging sound files. The software will line everything up for you.
For these reasons, I have always had a hard time considering rap to be music. I do, however, consider it to be a valid artform. It’s not something I particularly enjoy but I realize that many people do and I’m obviously not the target audience anyway. It has all of the elements that one might find in a work of art, but IMO, it is sorely lacking in the elements that I think are needed to be considered music, notably harmony, melody, and musicianship skills.
The key phrase in the above being “as well as”. I love rock music as well as many other kinds and, especially speaking as a drummer, I would hardly think you could ignore Rhythm in rock music. Many classic rock music can be defined by the drum beats. Led Zeppelin, for example. But Rock, in it’s simplest form contains elements of melody and harmony. Even “My Sharona” has a melody that can be written out in notation form. Try transcribing the vocal part of a rap tune. I don’t think it is possible.
That is not entirely accurate. Nobody has to program the beats, they can easily be downloaded from numerous sources or randomly generated. Loops are available all over the place, and many of these are used in rap, without ever being actually programmed by the artist. There are also programs that will fill in things like bass lines without any musical knowledge or experience required at all from the person programming them.
You also have situations where someone will take a loop from “Every Breath You Take” by the Police, for example, and place it in a rap tune, with absolutely no musical knowledge required in the least. To call someone who does this a musician is really selling musicians short. I recall seeing whichever artist it was that used the police loop for their rap, winning an award for their accomplishment. They started their acceptance speech with “When I wrote this song…” The problem is that they didn’t write that song. They wrote the poem that they “sang” over the song that someone else wrote. They acted as if they were a musical composer and I find that offensive.
Sorry, rap is music. You don’t have to like it, but it definitely falls under the definition.
I don’t understand why making it easier to create music (using tools like Fruity Loops) is somehow a bad thing. I think allowing people who may lack the talent to play in intrument to create music is a good thing.
I don’t think it is a bad thing but I wouldn’t necessarily call these people musicians.
Yes, this is one of the many definitions of music. But it does not say "as through melody, harmony, rhythm or timbre. It suggests that all of these elements would be present. Most forms of rap lack melody significanty, and to some extent harmony.
I find Websters definition to a be a little more accurate:
I think the note at the bottom of the definition better explains what I am trying to say.
I promised myself to not post on this thread any more and demean my intelect.
“Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”
[And in addition, continue on and on bullshitting until you get bored and then he feels content in that he believes he won]
But I must comment on
Please note, that Scottish people speak in a Scottish ACCENT. Yes, ACCENT is a new word. A characteristic pronunciation. And, although I have not read any scottish or any people with accents type something or write something, I know that [although I don’t speak in any accent] I type some stuff to resemble the way I speak. Words such as “prolly,” “lil,” or “g’night” derive from Probably, Little, and Good night. Now I say these things because I don’t wanna take the time annunciating every damn syllable like PRAW BUB BLEE, instead of saying PRAW LEE, its just unlogical to us lazy people. Now you could try arguing that thats what rappers and people who talk like that (white, black, everyone imitates it), even though they say words like Dat, Thurr, yeyah for That, there, yea. Now I will accept that some words are just shortened for lazy people, like Muthafucka, sucka, nigga, for motherfucker, sucker, nigger.
Please argue that black people have an accent, if you want, lol.
To everyone who says they hate rap and, yes, they HAVE listened to all the “good stuff”:
Go buy the following:
- Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik
- ATLiens
- Aquemini
- Stankonia
- Speakerboxxx/The Love Below
All five of these albums are by Outkast. All five of these albums are perfect examples of the best that rap has to offer. This is not a coincidence.
-Apoptosis
Buy? haha
I would never buy a [c]rap cd
Hell, I rarely buy any CD’s (This doesn’t imply I dl them :eek:)
Assuming $15/cd are you seriously suggesting that I spend $75 in music that I will not enjoy? I DON’T LIKE THE STYLE ok? I don’t like a thumping beat with a guy talking along with it/chanting/ RAPPING. You see? It annoys me. So do steel guitars and twangy voiced country singers. So does most ‘big band’ music. Why is it so hard for you to accept that some people don’t care for the style?
She shoots … she scores !
Hey OpalCat,
I do not find this hard to accept at all. I merely do not believe you when you say you’ve already heard all the “good stuff.”
And by the way, I didn’t really mean you should buy the CDs. However, I felt it prudent to comply with this Board’s rules regarding recommending illegal activities.
-Apoptosis