I am not a practicing Jew. I don’t believe there is a God. I am likely not going to be able to go to the Seder tomorrow night, and I’m aggrieved about this but not because I am going to miss the prayers.
It is because I am going to miss the rituals, the family, the time together and yeah, the matzohballs.
Am I a Jew? I was Bar Mitzvah’d, but that was decades ago. I define myself most vehemently as Jew and yet, I’ve no faith. I struggle with the idea of being a cultural Jew and not a pious one.
It is a terrible struggle, and I never know if I am able to settle it. I probably never will. Can I be a cultural Jew and not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob??
Non-Jew here, but for what it’s worth, yeah why not?
If the “What is a Jew?” threads I’ve seen here are any indication, the definition of Jewishness seems pretty open-ended and unresolved. Is it a religion? A race? A culture? All three? Then what is the mix? If you want to keep the cool slang, the unique humour, the matzohballs, and anything else your heritage has to offer, why not? The God bit is up to you.
Jewishness is your heritage. As the Australian aborigines would say, it’s your “dreaming”. Your birthright.
As a former Christian (a very long time ago), I don’t have a problem with stuffing my face on hot cross buns, whilst not wanting to go to church.
**Cartooniverse, ** mind if I join you in your Godlessness and your Sederlessness? I’m also a very un-Tribe-like member of the Tribe, and as Mom in her infinite wisdom decided to have Seder 50 miles away from home, on a weeknight when I can’t get any time off, at the home of someone I can’t stand, I’m not going to make it this year, either. If I had any hope that the family ritual this year would consist of something other than Mom yelling at me, I might be bummed at missing it…
Maybe I’ll start a virtual Seder thread, with no family psychoses. Is there such a thing as a Seder free of family psychoses? What time is sundown tomorrow might? I’ll bring the virtual charoset…I do it every year.
My boyfriend defines himself as an atheist Jew. If he can do that, I figure you can be a cultural Jew if you like. Heck, I’ll even join you. I’d love to convert to cultural Judaism. ;j
Seriously, I can appreciate your dilemma. I was this close to converting when I was a teenager, but I finally decided that on the deeply religious level, Judaism didn’t jibe any better than Christianity for me. I find the secular flavour of it to be more appealing, however, if that makes any sense.
My boyfriend defines himself as an atheist Jew. If he can do that, I figure you can be a cultural Jew if you like. Heck, I’ll even join you. I’d love to convert to cultural Judaism. ;j
Seriously, I can appreciate your dilemma. I was this close to converting when I was a teenager, but I finally decided that on the deeply religious level, Judaism didn’t jibe any better than Christianity for me. I find the secular flavour of it to be more appealing, however, if that makes any sense.
Thank you all for the support so far. It’s not an easy row to hoe, is it? The truth is that I never had seriously faithful feelings, but a few choice events in late-teen years really finished off any deep love for my religion that I might have had kicking around under my kipa. ;j
My mother articulated it very well when I was a child and I asked her why she went to Quaker Meeting for Worship, AND sometimes went to Shul on High Holidays. She said she goes with my Dad and us out of respect for his desire to go. She sought out Quakerism because the more war-like aspects of Judaism upset her too much. My mother, the Pacifist. It’s where I get my Pacifism.
So now as an adult ( okay. an old adult. ), I’m struggling in a similar vein. I see myself as Jew but find aspects of the religion to be difficult. I badly miss the cultural aspects of it, though.
Originally Posted byEva Luna
If you are bringing the charoses, that leaves it to me to make the hand-made gefilte fish, yes? Only the finest fishies I can find will go into it, I swear !!! Ever notice how charoses ( the Ashkenazic pronounciation of the word ) rhymes nicely with psychoses? Heh. Heh heh.
I’ll be glad to make the Seder Plate as well. I only have one request. For almost all of my 40 years I’ve been the Wicked Son. Can I request a change of assignment, and be the Simpleton JUST for one year???
Another atheist Jew here. If asked, I tell people I’m an atheist, and if pressed, I elaborate that I am “culturally Jewish.” But I try not to describe myself as a Jew, as some real Jews have found that rather insulting, as I don’t believe in the religion or follow any of its precepts.
I’m in the club, too. I revel in the cultural aspects of Judaism, but I have a hard time with the God part.
I am, however, going to spend the evening with a local Jewish family at their seder. I just wouldn’t feel comfortable not going, and I think that Aaron should be raised with an awareness of where he comes from. (And, yes, he is also going to church on Easter Sunday; I promised Airman that he’d go.)
Ha, count me three (or is it four) on the Athiest Jew list (and I’m Unitarian Universalist to boot!).
That said, Passover is my favorite holiday of them all. I find it to serve as a thanksgiving much more meaningful than the American Thanksgiving in November. In fact, tonight I’ll be leading the Seder we UU Jews at my church put on for the forth year in a row.
I never had a Bar Mitzvah… never went to temple as a kid or anything. But I think I always will celebrate the Passover, and will always consider myself Jewish (er, as Jewish as an athiest UU can be, anyway )
Tons of people struggle with the imagined hypocrisy of being only culturally Jewish. They wonder if it is right to go to Seders and eat the proper foods and go to services for High Holy Days without a belief in God.
One thing that has worked for some by giving them a reason to perform these acts, even without God, is to think that millions died and have been persecuted because they wanted to do the very same. Even without a belief in God, a modern Jew going to a Seder is paying respect to his or her ancestors. Of course, more religious Jews might disagree, as this would seem to be an attempt to secularize the practices.
Usually, we go to Seders at friends houses, and we walk because we’re “orthodox” (although “observant” is a better word). Every year without fail, at least one of my kids will ask why so many people are leaving their seders while we haven’t yet started ours. “Why do those people start their seders so early?”
My stock answer is that it’s important that Jewish people feel * something*, so even if they go to a seder that may not go according to halacha (Jewish law), there is still something in their hearts. Anything is better than nothing at all.
Monkeypants, I agree as well and appreciate how well you’ve articulated this point. Our Seder Haggadah contains readings by writers regarding the Holocaust. It is in fact, the last section of our Seder service. Time is given to that part of our history and if I view the desire to attend in this context, then perhaps I can lay off myself a bit. It’s not rationalization, it’s rational. I thank you for the thought.
I started this thread partially because of a fear we could not attend. We cannot, my son just tested + for Strep Throat. We cannot expose 21 other people to him ( and to use, filthy bacteria-laden carriers that we all are right now ). We also have a family with cancer who absolutely cannot risk exposure. So, we don’t go.
Today is a special day in our home for another reason, it is my adopted daughter’s Arrival Day. Instead of combining, we will celebrate that here at home.
Speaking from the other side (so to speak), my family are all Christians and I was brought up to be Christian but I now know that Christ means nothing to me and therefore I am not a Christian. I have some vauge feelings about a higher power but I’m certain Jesus Christ isn’t it.
And yet, I do participate in Christmas, I even go to church (that one day). Not as an individual, but as a part of a family. I personally (quietly to myself), consider Christmas a reason to gather together and celebrate my family and where I came from. Not as a reason to celebrate a deity I have nothing to do with. And yes, I think the pomp and ritual of Christmas services are kind of cool, also I love the music.
Yes, your situation is different and yet not really. Participate in the Seder to celebrate your love for your family and enjoy the rich heritage of your culture. Such things (in my mind) are some of the really important things in life.
Thank you all for the support so far. It’s not an easy row to hoe, is it? The truth is that I never had seriously faithful feelings, but a few choice events in late-teen years really finished off any deep love for my religion that I might have had kicking around under my kipa. ;j
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