We don’t need a wall. Aside from demagogues and the people fooled by them, we don’t even want it. To the degree that persons who cross over the border illegally are a problem (which is debatable), we do well enough catching them after the fact to keep that problem from being a problem. (Cite: the country hasn’t already been burned down years ago by rage-virused illegal immigrants.)
All proposed walls would be ineffective. The first hint you’ll have of an effective wall proposal would be that it would include an extremely large ongoing cost, not just a cost for initial construction.
It’s pretty easy to dismiss environmental concerns. I know that I, personally, wouldn’t give a crap if every single life form that isn’t human or regularly served on a plate at Denny’s instantly vanished from existence. Of course there’s a part of my mind that whispers this is a stupid perspective and continually trashing the environment with no regard to possible consequences is going to kill us all. But me, I’ll worry about that when the environment kills us all.
And immigration control should be left to the experts in immigration control. That doesn’t include anyone whose name you or I know.
Makes sense
I’m probably slightly more concerned environmentally but it’s sort of a balancing act.
A couple of ocelots likely hunting along a barrier just tells me they are doing what predators do and probably even benefitting from the fence. Coyotes use this strategy a lot.
I guess first thing is we need to settle on how much immigration control we need.
Second would be to look at elements of other effective strategies rather than reinventing the wall.
Third would be deploying them to reach our goal.
Fourth would be re evaluating.
So far I don’t see much from any actual experts on the subjects… mostly politicized rhetoric from whoever , so i’m not real convinced either way.
Using immigrant or other underemployed workers to build it sounds beneficial.
Hey there’s a way to gain citizenship.
Then make crossing it roughly equal to crossing US / Canadian border policy wise and maybe we have a winner.
I’d think that with the given scheme people would get visas and then work for someone who would not take half their money. That would be a big incentive for cheating the system. And since 90 days is so short, a lot would overstay, like they do now.
So not super practical.
You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means
Do you mean “Boarder”, as in a person who receives regular meals when staying somewhere, in return for payment or services?
Or do you mean “Boarder”, as in a person who forces their way on to a ship in an attack?
Your description seems to contain a bit of both, but also frequent mentions of “crossing the Boarder”. Is this a religious reference to crucifixion?
So just to add the reason I included the wall building in this is because of political reasons, not because it would actually do any good and would do lots of harm. But that is yet to be seen. But I have faith if we can make the system legal and working to allow migrant workers to cross, we will see we don’t need the wall and that would fall out of favor and not be done however I can accept that I am wrong about that part and fully willing to actually building the damm thing if it turns out differently.
You like to get on your high horse make a point, but that point you want to make is irrelevant to this topic as you know damn well what I mean.
The wall is a stupid solution to a vastly exaggerated problem, but I like the idea of using a financial incentive as part of a solution to the real immigration “problem” – people overstaying their visas.
(I’ll admit I’m not well versed on the whole work visa process, so please slap me down if any of this reflects wholesale ignorance.)
People on work visas pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, yet many if not most will never collect any of those benefits. As an incentive to “check in” with USCIS as their visas near expiration, we could offer a partial rebate of those funds. Or, if the immigrant wants to renew their visa and/or work toward permanent residency or citizenship, they can choose to “roll over” the funds until the next visa renewal.
If their visa is not renewed, they get the partial rebate in cash when they leave the country.
If they overstay without this “check-in,” they forfeit the funds and become undocumented, with all the risks that entails.
Someone ought to do a study on the cost/benefit per illegal immigrant crossing the southern border. Assuming that the cost exceeds the benefit (which prior studies have shown to be debatable), you also have to show that, assuming that illegal immigrants don’t simply find other ways to enter the country (like hidden in the back of trucks, or through the use of visas, which is actually the way most people end up as illegal when their visas expire), then you have to justify the cost of the wall against the alleged benefit. Some of the studies that allegedly show an excessive cost of illegal immigration have been shown to be faulty. There’s evidence that the taxes alone that illegals pay exceed the cost of them being here. Are These the True Costs of Immigrants in Los Angeles? | Snopes.com
Considering that immigrants, illegal or otherwise, are less likely to commit crimes than citizens, you could have a ‘modest proposal’ that you would make the country safer by deporting naturalized citizens to make more room for immigrants.
When people say “a wall would be ineffective,” they do in fact mean that a wall by itself is ineffective. It’s a way of showing that the high cost of the wall plus its upkeep is still not enough to actually do anything.
If the wall is ineffective by itself, then it doesn’t make sense to pay for it without first seeing the cost of everything else you’d need. And then, when you have everything else, does the wall really add anything? And, if so, could you not just add more of something else and get a better bang for your buck?
A lot of people really seem to think that simply putting up a wall and keeping existing enforcement levels would stop illegal immigration, or at least put a significant dent in it. And that is what the “a wall wouldn’t do anything argument” is used against. It just wouldn’t help much, because most illegal immigrants actually arrive here legally.
Oh, and so I don’t have to make another post: No, we wouldn’t have to kill, but killing people who cross is much easier and cheaper than rounding them up and sending them back. That’s why East Germany did it that way. It’s a much bigger deterrent, and you can automate a lot of it with mines and bombs, or partially automate it with guns. To deport, you need to actually come into physical contact, which takes more workers.
The whole reason the killing business came up is because the Berlin Wall was being cited as demonstrative proof of how walls are awesome and effective deterrents to people from successfully crossing…without much worrying about why the Berlin Wall was so effective at keeping people from crossing.
It does and it doesnt. Of course we have a deficit budget, so if you count all indirect things, just about ALL of us cost the government more than the Gov gets in taxes from us. The military protects us all, right? If you’re not in the 2%, you’re a moocher. So, yeah, based upon that illegals are a cost. But since more of them do not necessarily lead to more expenses, not really.
Then there’s direct benefits , like Health, welfare, etc. In those, it has been shown that illegals pay in more than they take out.
Oh, but it does contribute to this discussion.
The contribution is this: If the OP is too dang lazy to even use the correct word, just how valid are his other stated opinions?
By not bothering to use the correct word, you illuminate your own ignorance and undermine your own credibility.
Our purpose here is fighting ignorance, but there is a difference between pointing out someone’s grammar or spelling mistake so that they can learn from it and pointing to a mistake just to be a pedantic jerk. Your behavior is the latter, and you are not contributing to the discussion.
Our number one rule here is don’t be a jerk. Stop being a jerk.
