I see. So lewd behavior doesn’t depend on actions, but simply what the person performing the lewd act of “standing naked in the women’s locker room” is thinking about themselves?
:shrug: Ok, if you say so.
(I make no judgments on “lewd.”)
actually never mind, I wasn’t really discussing this part of the topic anyway. I don’t really care who is in what locker room or bathroom or whatever. I would, however, be happy to move the old, naked dudes that sit around nakedly talking for hours to another locker room. Put a towel on!
Coed showers for the win!
No, since anyone can behave lewdly in any place. But depending on one’s gender identity, in our culture and society, the same action might be lewd for one and not for another.
Lewdness is subjective, and different cultures and societies, and even different people, might see things differently.
I think that treating trans people differently than others of the same gender identity with regards to bathrooms is wrong and bigoted, so considering an action that for a cis woman would be normal, unacceptable or lewd for a trans woman, is wrong and bigoted IMO.
But due to culture and societal conventions, I don’t believe the same is necessarily true for people of different gender identities.
Perv! 
Why is “culture and societal conventions” enough justification to treat people differently in the case of people of different gender identities and not enough in the case of people of the same gender identity? What makes one bigoted and unacceptable and the other one OK? They seem the same to me.
In my judgment, because one had demonstrably caused much harm, and the other has not. There have certainly been harmful societal practices, and those should end. But based on my judgment, gendered bathrooms is not one of these.
I could be wrong, but that’s what I believe right now.
“demonstrably caused much harm” is not the same thing as “bigoted”. You seem to be making two separate distinctions, and bouncing back and forth as needed.
Post #364 didn’t mention anything about causing harm - only about one being bigoted and one not. (The latter got credit for being due to societal conventions.) I was asking about that distinction.
I think harm goes into the definition of bigotry, at least as I was using it.
I don’t understand this.
You seem to be saying any woman who feels discomfort with transwomen in her bathroom is having bigoted feelings. The harm you’re referring to can’t be the harm from this woman’s feelings in this bathroom (otherwise your argument would be completely circular). So you’re saying that because in other instances people’s discomfort with transpeople has caused harm (presumably because of violent expressions of this?) therefore anyone who feels some level of discomfort with transpeople in bathrooms, despite no intent to harm anyone, is feeling a bigoted feeling, and therefore this feeling is more easily discounted than a comparable feeling which is not associated with harm.
Is that correct?
Okay, bigoted actions then, like discrimination, which is my larger concern, rather than bigoted feelings.
I am large, and contain multitudes.
Whatever, you know what I meant.
By teaching boys in school to use the boys room only, and girls to use the girls room only, are we teaching children to be bigots who hate the opposite sex?
Or something else? Should we stop teaching that in school and let the sexes just mix in bathrooms? After all, we’re not preventing any harm from that by separating the sexes, are we?
Not really. There are two possibilities, and I don’t know which one you meant.
I’m fine with gendered bathrooms and with non gendered bathrooms.
Similar to the fact that in most states, a man can go shirtless but a woman cannot?
Well, if ever there was a response that shows that you’re determined not to answer questions or at least take a position, this is it.
Why do I need to take a position if i think they’re both fine? Why the need for 100% black and white certainty?
Did we get to the poly marriage part yet? I’m bored…
Start your own thread then - this one is mine! Has my name on it and everything.