I disagree with your definition. To me, bigotry is judging all people of one group to be all members of another without merit. It isn’t whether or not the judgement is specific to one person, but whether it has merit, that makes a difference. It’s just as possible to be bigoted towards a single person as it is towards many.
You’re a better man than I. You introduce me to the blackest,fattest and most handicapped man, and I’m snapping a few pictures…
(I’m imagining here just a large ebony sphere… no sensory organs or limbs to mar the surface…)
And this is exactly right. Every society (until we evolve way past where the species is now) will always require an “other” to serve various needs like fostering cooperation and channeling aggression. We can create them and discard them as needed, and we don’t even all need to have the same one as long as we’re all playing the same game. It would be a big mistake to assume that long-discarded bigotries couldn’t be revived as easily as new ones could be invented, and a bigger one to think that there’s any kind of progress involved.
Poor Sandy Allen was unfortunate enough to occupy a near-universal perception as “other,” and lucky enough to at least be a non-threatening other. Isolated but not attacked, she was a victim of the impulse toward bigotry but not of its worst excesses.
To be frank, I’m not sure what to make of Ms. Cohen’s article. She doesn’t seem to have learned much about her subject beyond some snippets that fit her personal thesis (which seems to be underpinned by personal and professional/financial motives). The article, for me, is complately ruined with this howler: “It was the era of civil rights: We’re all the same on the inside, and we’re going to treat people as equals.
Everyone except very tall people.”
I think that the 60’s did not solve everyone else’s problems quite so completely. In fact, the most bigoted thing I can find (far worse than a professional vulgarian’s antics) is Ms. Cohen’s assumption that Ms. Allen’s virginity couldn’t have been by choice.
And for what it’s worth, I understood Khampelf to mean that a similar bigotry exists against both Semitic peoples, including Jews and Arabs, and also against Persians, without trying to lump them all together, ethnically and culturally. And I think Khampelf is probably right.
Actually I thought I was mostly just dicking around. Was anybody else taking my remarks seriously? I mean, come on: “Anti-semantic bigotry?” Do I have to underline the joke part? What are you, some kind of lack-witted Persian or something?
Howard Stern is one of the least racist, least bigoted, least hateful persons in the world. Yes, he is fascinated by odd people but it is very clear that he has compassion for them and in a lot of ways feels like one of them, despite sometimes having fun with them for the sake of humor. He is a very outspoken supporter of gay rights and equality for all races. He graduated from a respected college with a high GPA and surveys throughout the years have consistently shown he has one of the most intelligent audiences in radio.
Regarding the “last” socially acceptable form of bigotry . . . believe me, there are a lot of them left. Here it’s Mexicans, unfortunately. Most people disguise their hate by claiming to confine it to “illegals”, but ask them who is illegal . . . they assume every Mexican is.
Do you really believe this? Really and truly? You think it would be accepted to take a picture and make “witty” negative remarks about her? And if you believe this, are you basing this on the fact that Howard Stern deemed her unfuckable?
Howard Stern who had a drunken dwarf on his staff they used to feed booze to so he’d shit himself and do dumb things? Howard Stern who had a jar made in the shape of Rosie O’Donnell’s head and would have guests try to guess how many gumballs were in the jar? Howard Stern who dressed up like a character called Fartman? Howard Stern who would have Richard Simmons on the show and call him a faggot and then sing showtunes with him? Howard Stern who had a show called “Black Jeopardy” where a question might be “How many ounces are in a forty of Mickey’s?” and the answer might be “What BE 40?” Howard Stern who had a game called The Lesbian Squares? I could go on and on°, but I think you might catch my drift by now.
Are you really and truly judging the acceptability of a person’s worth using Howard Stern as your barometer? If the answer is yes, how do you feel comfortable doing this?
°-Yes I used to listen to Howard Stern, I’m a sick puppy sometimes. Sometimes I wanted to punch him in the nose & sometimes he made me laugh hysterically.
I’m guessing he was referring to you writing “So while anti-Arab feeling is not antisemitism, it is antisemitic” because you found “yet the earlier term “antisemitic” referred to all Semitic races (Steinschneider, 1860)”.
“Antisemetic” is merely a tense of the word “antisemitism”. They both refer to prejudice against Jews only now
I thought the actress Charlize Thereon identified as African American? She was born in South Africa, but isn’t she also considered American?
Oh fine, be that way, lissener. You honestly think I was trolling? I don’t think I was.
For what it’s worth, I apologize for losing my temper. I should not have resorted to Persianal insults.
Thanks for the helpful interpretation, x-ray vision. It would have been nice to have an accompanying quote from lissener to clarify my nefarious Orwellianism.
Although if that’s really the case, I find it difficult to grasp how the original coined term from 1860 qualifies as “Newspeak.” I’m not the one who originally decreed that “antisemitism” needed to have a different definition from “antisemitic.” I’m just reading from Wikipedia’s summary of a bunch of dead Germans. Would anybody have guessed that the two words weren’t intended to address the same groups? It is interesting, is all.
I have to think that if you go on Howard Stern, you are kind of asking for it.
No, not exactly right. The posters ignore the very meaningful distinctions between different types of bigotry.
Vicious bigotry, which permits lynchings, intimidation and physical violence against those with certain characteristics is very different from gawking or treating somebody like a carnival sideshow.
Similarly, not giving somebody an even break because they’re queer is a qualitatively different category.
“Bigotry” denotes a very deep antipathy, one that is lacking against smokers and furries, at least today. There really isn’t any comparison.
So why did I bring up the example of criminals? In common speech they’re often lumped together and characterized in a frankly dehumanizing fashion. They are detested as a group. I know, I know: do the crime, do the time. But it seems a little off to lump together all prisoners, regardless of their crime or individual circumstances.
Not that I really care, in all honesty: my prejudices probably aren’t so different than is typical for this board. And they’re probably all alike anyway. [1]
Anyway, to repeat: “The last socially acceptable form of bigotry”, is a meaningful construct, provided you don’t apply an overly broad definition to the term.
[1] (False.)
Yeah, but if you look like her, and you know that he looks like him, you might be thinking . . . this could be it. Blood on the sheets. I mean, I’m gay, but I’d do her before I’d do him.
Hey lissener, you ever plan on clarifying why you think I was trolling? Just asking.
I’m glad someone mentioned newspeak. So, because it isn’t anti-semitism(only evil Nazis do that), as currently understood, it’s OK to hate Arabs (who are vermin and need to be eradicated in a great crusade, in the name of homeland security). Just hate the Persians separately, for different reasons. (they got nukes, you know.)
Paul in Saudi, I said twice that Persians were not semites. It’s why I mentioned them by name. But both Iranians and Iraqis are both feeling the hatred from America.
Semites and Persians. (but they’re different!! Persians aren’t semites!!) I know, that’s why I used two different words.
But it’s not anti-semitism, just bigotry.
Goddam, I just slipped on a wad of lupine intestines, for all of the hair-splitting going on.
And just to take the analogy to ridiculous extremes…
Fuck, I just slashed my leg open. Can you call 911?
“That’s more of a puncture wound, actually.”
“But 9-11 is a national disaster, what else should we call it?”
“Wait, what blood type are you?”
Fucking dopers. ties leg with tourniquet. limps to hospital.
And smokers, we’re pretty reviled, too.
Lapine. Lupine refers to wolves. If you’re splitting hares, it’s lapine.
runs
Who in the fuck said that? Don’t set up bullshit strawman arguments. Nobody here has said anything even approaching that. What you have said makes absolutely no sense. Could you clarify how this relates in any way to the discussion of the definition of bigotry or anti-Semitism?
As others have said, of course he would. He makes fun of his own sidekick, Artie Lange, who is pretty fat, on a daily basis. He also shows great compassion for him. He also makes fun of a wheelchair bound dwarf who calls in daily. But, again, he does have as much compassion as possible for this man.
I don’t think he ever called Richard Simmons a faggot or even just a fag, even if he does needle him about not being married and having a strong bond with his dalmatians (implying they are the children he never had). He is also a great champion of gay rights and gay dignity. Yes, it’s really true. He is the first one to lament the tragic need of some gay people to remain closeted to the world and perhaps themselves. While he might think Rosie O’Donnell has a big head he loves “Gay Rosie”, the Rosie who has the gay family cruises with the beautiful families that happen to include same-sex parents. This is how Howard describes it.
But, he is fascinated by sex and if any person is going to be a guest on his show they are going to be asked about their sexuality and experiences. If you met a woman with giantism, perhaps you might wonder if she’d ever had the opportunity for physical love too.
khampelf, I hope you recognized that I was kidding earlier about the Persian wisecracks? I didn’t think I was genuinely being offensive at all. If it seemed that way, I apologize. I don’t really know anything about Persians. It never even occurred to me that there was any significant anti-Persian sentiment in the US, except perhaps as a result of conflation with anti-Arab sentiment. I’ve never even heard any Persian jokes.
How can you possibly bring yourself to hate Persians, with their soft fluffy fur and little squashed faces and long whiskers?!
OK, in all seriousness - I think anyone who is bigoted against Arabs, probably doesn’t even know the difference between them and the people of Iran, i.e. the Persians. They just lump them all in one group.