I know this isn’t going to turn out well, but…
A lot of people on the net HATE furries. Obviously, we aren’t getting lynched or segregated, but I had my webcomic flamed just for presenting myself as a Thunderian. I have read incredibly hate-filled rants against furries. We’re the butt of a lot jokes, jokes that I’ve even seen here. And the only way we “earn” it is by being very inclusive and open-minded.
The rest of your post might be true (except that Hank never worked for the show), but you really need to take this part back. Richard Simmons has been a frequent guest and friend of the show for years, and they have had combative moments, but it’s obviously they both like each other a lot, and unless you have a cite, I seriously doubt Howard ever called him a faggot. He is not that kind of guy.
No, you clarified pretty well yourself; your post is my cite.
I really need to stay out of here.
There’s no strawman. It just seems that the point I was making, in a thread about acceptable forms of bigotry, was dismissed for semantics.
“I think that there is an anti-arab sentiment present in America, that is socially acceptable.”
That was my point.
It seems (my impressions only) to have been shouted down and dismissed on the grounds of:
“There can’t be any such thing, because you didn’t capitalize A-rab. This invalidates any possible point you could have been making.”
(please note, the original dissolved over ‘semitic’, this an example only)
And yes, there’s wolf intestines around too. Those are the ones I was thrown to, after all the hair-splitting.
Takes guts to post in the Pit.
Oh, poor you.
It is my eternal despair to be misunderstood, yes.
ETA, any argument by analogy is met, here, with fingerpointing and typo nitpicking.
I guess I’m an analog-uey guy in a digital world.
Take it back? You want me to take it back? Or else what, you’ll tell Mom?
I heard it with my own ears, and I honestly don’t care if you believe it or not. Seriously. I also don’t care that you think the rest of my post “might” be true. I wasn’t criticizing Howard Stern, simply trying to get the OP to see what nonsense his assertions are.
You and Caricci can spare me the defense of Howard posts because, as I mentioned in my post, I used to listen to him so apparently I don’t think he’s the devil. I don’t need you to explain to me what “kind of guy” he is. I never said he was racist, sexist, homophobic, or anything else.
If you want to split hairs about whether Hank used to work for the show or not, have at it. He got paid for appearances for the show and paid when he was on the show (per his manager via phone call to the show after he died) so he may not have been listed as an employee but he got money as a result of the show. I’m not going to play the semantics game because I stepped on your fanboy toes.
Pardon me but I have little patience tonight and I think you’re missing the entire point of what I posted. I realize this is pretty easy to do considering people have hijacked this post to hell and back, and following the breadcrumbs back to the OP is like tripping acid and reading a roadmap. BUT, I was simply explaining to the OP (who obviously learned about Howard Stern from blurbs he’s heard here and there) that Howard calling someone unfuckable isn’t akin to firing up the crosses and practicing noose making. In other words, I was on your side until you started splitting hairs and wanted to make it seem otherwise.
Socially acceptable forms of bigotry are the ones that we don’t really notice because we really believe there are important and justifiable differences. And so we continue to discriminate between:
If someone can write a standup comedy routine based on any of the differences and go on network TV with it, I would say it’s probably still socially acceptable discrimination. We may disagree on whether or not it is bigotry until another forty years has passed and we have some perspective.
Zoe: I sure hope those elements are considered bigotry in 40 years, since moving goal posts can be progressive in some instances.
For now though,
Emphasis added. Point acknowledged. It seems that you don’t disagree with my distinction though.
I opine (ignorantly) that furries receive flaming because those who appear submissive are often targets of bullying. Especially on the anonymous or semi-anonymous internet. That may be unfortunate, but it’s substantially different from what I was originally getting act.
Granted, friction between nonconformists and conventionalists shows little sign of going away.
As for complaining about being the butt of jokes, I may have reached some sort of personal boundary: I can’t tell well this is a case of an overly sensitive listener or whether I’m too tolerant of certain forms of humor. (To be fair, Silver Tyger Girl’s post on the previous page had more than one emoticon with rolling eyes. I don’t think that she’s playing the victim.)
(Sikhs as well.) Ellipses substituted in for “Anti-Semitic”, by which Khampelf apparently meant “Anti-Arab”.
I don’t doubt that Khampelf has noticed prejudice. But he didn’t offer substantiation and he didn’t show how bigotry was considered acceptable in the US. Nobody is saying for example that racial slurs with racist intent have disappeared, merely that they are almost universally disapproved of. We have a ways to go.
Listening to someone, or liking someone, or being on my “side”, or whatever doesn’t give you the right to accuse someone of calling someone else a faggot. I don’t care how short your patience is tonight. I’m not picking sides or trying to start a fight with you, I just don’t like seeing people spread shit like this about someone I really like. Enough people hate him already.
Take it back! Take back what you said about the person I really like!
I heard him say it, if you don’t believe me, eh. Like I said before, I don’t care if you believe me or not.
Was Richard mad? No. He did his huffy puffy “Hoooowaard!” thing and scolded him and they went on with their back and forth pouting and teasing like they always do.
Your last sentence makes me curious. Why on earth do you care what people think of Howard Stern? If you like him, you like him. I’m quite certain that Mr Stern doesn’t give a shit what people think of him, especially people who’ve never bothered to listen to more than a show or two. Why does Cisco of the Straight Dope Message Board feel the need to climb the proverbial water tower with a can of paint to save his virtue? Most adults don’t really concern themselves with what others think of their celebrity favorites.
I just want to know why we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway.
A cite that a feeling of antipathy exists towards certain or most denizens of the Middle East, and that it’s socially acceptable?
Talking to an Iraqi in Payson Arizona about how he’s known in town as the ‘Sand Nigger’.
T-Shirts that say ‘I’d walk a mile to smoke a camel’ with a Bedouin looking silhouette in a crosshair.
Alan Jackson, etc.
This is not shouted down with cries of ‘Hey, some of my best friends are Iraqi.’
I’m afraid my impression remains that the sand niggers have it worse than the queers.
Yes. I said those bad, bad words, but think about what they mean. If you please to.
Because I think he’s a good person. I credit him with getting me through high school. I had an hour drive one-way and was in a very ‘I don’t give a shit’ time in my life and there’s simply no way I would’ve gotten up and made it every morning without his show to look forward to. Isn’t there anyone who you care about and wouldn’t want people thinking they call people faggots?
I’ve heard most of Richard’s appearances over the years. I’ve been listening since '97 and he’s a guy that makes it on Best-of/Mastertape Theatre a lot and I definitely would’ve remembered Howard calling him that. Teasing him about his sex life, yes; blatantly slapping a word like that on him, no. And Richard has run out of the studio crying for a lot less, I don’t think he would let that slide easily.
Ok, there are two separate discussions going on.
First of all, Howard Stern is badass. He is hilarious, he is very smart, and he is NOT A BIGOT. Howard Stern, like R. Crumb and other transgressive personalities, is playing upon cultural stereotypes that are deeply embedded in our society, for humor value. People don’t like the fact that he’s shoving that stuff in their face, forcing them to confront it - so they call HIM the bigot. But he is clearly not. Most people who condemn him haven’t even listened to his show.
Second of all, I don’t even know how this whole anti-Arab prejudice conversation even came about, but no, I don’t think it is considered more socially acceptable to be anti-Arab than to be anti-homosexual. Look at the anti-gay-marriage movement and how much political clout that issue carries. Have you ever seen any mainstream politician advocate any anti-Arab positions?
It is an interesting question whether now is the time to accept the expanded definition of the word to encompass all Semites.
Given that there is so much of it and a crying need for such a word in current USA, I say yes.
Trust me, there’s heaps.
What’s wrong with just saying “anti-Arab” then?
Anti-Semitic as applied to Arabs, even if it is accurate in terms of the etymology, is just too confusing and has too much potential for being misinterpreted.
I disagree: What is says is ‘this is a bad thing’. The reasons why are clear and it is a short and logical step to apply it to Arabs/Persians too.
Maybe but how is the public going to just change its perception?
If there were any official effort among advocacy groups to change the popular term “anti-Semite” to include Arabs or Persians, it would result in a gigantic clusterfuck with all sorts of different Jewish and Arab groups and coalitions and committees all at each other’s throats.