ISTR that in the late '90s there was a survey (possibly connected to a Fox “documentary”) that said about 20% of Americans believed the Moon landing was faked.
The lesson I took from that is that there’s a baseline of about 20-25% of Americans who will believe, or at least say they believe, any batshit insane idea you propose to them.
John: Hey, Bush is now at 37% approval. I feel much less like Kevin McCarthy screaming in traffic. But I wonder what his base is –
Tyrone: 27%.
John: … you said that immmediately, and with some authority.
Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.
And that’s the fundamental difference. There’s a difference between being willing to use violence, and wanting to use violence. Any “left wing” violence that occurs in conjunction with the election will almost certainly be a response to violence initiated by people on the Right side of the spectrum. Even if Trump wins, I don’t expect violence from the left, unless he only wins because of political violence suppressing voter turnout, or the like. As bad as a Trump win would be, I expect most leftists to recognize the win, even as they lament it.
But on the right, a lot of people are making it clear that they simply will not believe or accept Trump losing the election, and that they’re actively preparing themselves to use violence to put him in power.
My sense is that a lot of the sentiment suggesting violence is the answer comes from keyboard warriors and other Internet tough guys.
As for free speech limitations, constantly cited by the road-to-fascism crowd (and more recently by denialists who equate criticism with being silenced), history shows clampdowns far more pronounced than anything experienced today, including government-imposed censorship (voluntary and legally enforced) during the World Wars.
I’m afraid we may be moving in a direction where half the country is essentially North Korea; walled off from any factual information about the rest of the world, and fed a coordinated series of lies that don’t correspond to reality.
To moderate some of the fear or imminent danger that some people in this thread are displaying I would point out that the specific question was whether violence “may be needed” not “will be needed” and that “may” can cover a wide range of imagined scenarios.
The circumstances under which they believe violence may be necessary might be Biden mobilizing Antifa to only let black and Hispanic people vote, or weaponizing the Justice department to arrest all Republican politicians. With the assumption that there will be a universal mass uprising.
But if its just Biden wins, Trump and his supporters whine, but there is no mass uprising, they will most likely just keep their head down.
Last time they had the President of the United States egging them on to do something. Next time they wont have that (hopefully).
Also, even the terminally stupid might be able to look at what happened with the past insurrection attempt:
over 750 charged, 629 defendants pleaded guilty, 129 went to trial.
Of those that went to trial only TWO got off on all charges.
Lengthy prison sentences were handed out to many.
This might - just might - make some future mooks pause a little if someone asks them to go storm the Capital Building or do some other stupid shit.
“But if we succeed then he’ll pardon EVERYBODY! (*)
( * No he won’t)
Well, for the low, low price of…
I don’t think that this part of the Republican party are in the Pro Putin camp…they are in the let’s be isolationists and let other countries sort out their own problems camp, especially when it comes to money. This is the same line of BS that Trump touted during his 2016 campaign and as president, that unless Nato member countries upped their defense spending to the agreed threshhold, then the US wasn’t going to come and save them.
So it’s just a coincidence that they advocate exactly what Putin would want us to do?
There are numerous times in life that two different parties may favor the same action (the US not giving aid to Ukraine), but for completely different reasons. It happens. I personally don’t believe that there are members of our legislature that desire to see Putin overthrow Ukraine. They may not care if it happens, but that’s different than wanting it to happen.
Putin likes Trump as President and they know he wanted Trump to win in 2016. They know deep down that Russia helps fund and elect Republicans. They play Tucker Carlson on Russian state TV. It doesn’t have to go any deeper than Putin likes Trump, so lets stop fighting him and let him win so he can keep helping our side win. Justifications are just that, if you have an outcome you want, you tend to filter your info into what arguments get me what I want. Trump back in the White House and enemies of MAGA harmed.
Boy that’s a leap. Let’s let 100,000 people die so that Trump can get re-elected. I don’t buy it, but I can understand that you do.
When you’ve been propagandized to believe that the country will 100% be destroyed if Trump isn’t returned to the White House, then your calculus changes. They believe we are already in a cold civil war. War requires certain sacrifices. Plus they don’t hear about the death and destruction in Ukraine from their sources. Just how corrupt Ukraine is, and that they are involved with Biden in amorphous shady ways. It’s the same us v them we have here with Putin/Zelensky standing in for Trump/Biden. I’m not saying they all feel this way, but these people exist and there are a lot of them.
There’s also a heavy dose of “whatever Biden wants, we’re against it”. And there are a number further out on the fringe who buy into Russian propaganda and spread Ukraine-Nazi memes and other fake news.
Thus we have the current through-the-looking-glass situation where progressives are largely for standing up against Russian aggression and conservatives are pro-appeasement.
I live in a different world than you. And hopefully most Americans do as well.
Well I live in a blue city in a blue state, near a neighborhood that is very red, I’m also in IT, so I’m online a lot and see this kind of stuff all the time. Not in my normal day to day interactions very much though. I did have a fireman I don’t know bring up Ukraine out of the blue at a recent neighborhood music and arts fest, and started immediately in about how Corrupt Ukraine is. He literally said “you know Ukraine is the most corrupt country in the world” and kept reiterating that he just didn’t want people to die. As if letting Putin have Ukraine would not result in any death. I pushed back (he didn’t expect anyone to disagree with him) and he got aggravated and left. The problem is none of these people live in the same world we do. Theirs is totally warped by the online voices they follow, which just happen to tell them exactly what Putin wants them to hear also. Maybe its coincidence, maybe its a decades long psychological cyber attack he has been waging against us. Who can say?
But its not just get Trump reelected, its getting themselves reelected too. If Putin can see that the Republican party is going to assist him in his fight against Ukraine (or at least prevent the US from acting against it) then he will have a vested interest in putting the Republican party in the drivers seat, and use his troll farms in their favor.
As far as not being able to stomach 100,000 Ukrainians die just to get elected, they recently sat by and watched 1.3 million Americans die just to spite Biden’s preventive efforts. So long as none of those 100,000 Ukrainians are members of their country club who cares.