No, violence didn’t ultimately “work” in the sense of reversing the U.S. presidential election outcome - nothing was going to do that.
But whatever your views may be, there can be no doubt that had Trumpers simply peacefully protested outside the Capitol building at a distance yesterday and merely shouted, waved flags and held signs, the vote-certifying process wouldn’t have been disrupted in the least and the Trump protests would have hardly even been mentioned in the media. By charging into the Capitol, forcing Congressmen to evacuate, getting 4 killed and causing an enormous ruckus, Trumpers got a hundred times as much coverage as they would have otherwise and actually did physically (temporarily) put a stop to the activity that they wanted to see stopped (the vote-certifying.)
With that sort of takeaway lesson (“peaceful protesting doesn’t do a thing”), we can expect far more of this to come in the future.
None of this would have happened if the orange one had graciously accepted his defeat. Root cause needs addressing, IMO, and not just prosecution after the fact, but prevention.
Trump has (most probably) failed in his despotic grasp to retain power now, but prosecuting him and punishing him after the event won’t stop someone else trying this in future - in fact everything that happened here kind of sends the message to future would-be dictators: ‘do what The Donald did, just don’t fail at it like he did’
The part that will give them that takeaway is the absence of consequences. If they can do bad shit like that and nothing bad happens to them, their thought will be: for sure, do it again! And those who weren’t here will wish they had been, and will make sure to be there the next time.
I think it’s a little early to say that this will be the takeaway. As you point out, violence didn’t work. It didn’t accomplish their stated goals. I’m also not convinced that there will be no consequences. I’d be surprised if the more egregiously photographed insurrectionists don’t end up doing some time. I don’t think Trump will pardon them either. He doesn’t give a shit about them.
Although the certification process was temporarily disrupted, it also convinced some people to withdraw their support for objections to electoral votes. So if they paid any attention to their accomplishments, I’d think that this should dissuade people from using violence in the future.
Of course you’d have to assume that these are people who care about reality or are capable of learning anything that doesn’t fit their narrow preconceptions. Given that, it doesn’t really matter what kind of message you send.
It’s like squishing a spider to send a lesson to other spiders that they need to vacate your house. They’re spiders, they aren’t going to get it.
Imagine if law enforcement had been out like they were when the protests were about the latest murder of a black man by the police. You may say I’m a dreamer.
I think people are letting the shock and emotion of yesterday cloud their judgement. Nothing about yesterday worked. Prominent Republicans gave emotional speeches about how wrong it was. Congress members dropped their EV objections. There is serious talk about impeachment and the 25th. The FBI is asking for help in arresting the rioters. Lindsey f-ing Graham called out Trump.
His image among his supporters as someone important, influential, and unfairly persecuted, whose grievances coincide with their own and whom they revere as a leader and celebrity.
I don’t think he has any other yardstick of accomplishment. He is going to go on for the rest of his life indefatigably doing and saying whatever he senses will boost his “ratings” with his “fans”. Whatever manages to achieve that for him has “worked”.
We might have to agree to disagree on this one. I don’t think his standing among his minions could get any higher. Didn’t one of the prominent rioters say he was ready to die for Trump? I don’t think the riot made any difference there. At most it was marginal.
Maybe not. But I think Trump thinks it’s more glamorous for him to be the Dear Leader of a bunch of insurrectionist lawbreakers, who were sufficiently rabbleroused by his speech to actually stage a news-cycle-shattering game of PseudoCoup with violence and intimidation and bloodshed in the heart of the national government, than to be the Dear Leader of a bunch of grouchy protestors who responded to his speech by marching down the Mall waving signs and chanting a bit and then just going home. To Trump, the former is way better TV, and consequently better for his “ratings”.
I’m now actually almost starting to feel a bit sorry for at least some of these sorry pretzelpeckers. Everything Trump does is such a reality-TV ham act played out against the backdrop of serious national governance, with all the competent knowledgeable grown-ups standing around letting him get away with his hammy posturing. I bet a lot of his dopey dupes have been seeing themselves in the same reality-TV universe, where they can do all sorts of amazing outrageous celebrity-type stuff on the national stage despite having no qualifications or knowledge for it, and get away with it just like Trump does.
And then all of a sudden they saw themselves, not as the bestest most badass YouTube stunt videos ever, but as actual criminals in literal mortal danger, with non-reality-TV lives that could get ruined as a consequence of their little freedom-fighters RPG. I am betting most of them were never really prepared for that.
Still only at “almost starting to feel a bit sorry”, though. Actual sympathy not yet attained and I’m not really planning to work too hard at it.
What I mean is, in the summer the cops were clad in riot gear, and occupied the steps of the Capitol, and there were lots of them, and weren’t opening gates and smiling for selfies.
A lot of the law enforcement over the summer was the national guard and a bunch of federal prison guards that trump had brought in. Those guys all in black with no ID? Prison guards.
Did you WANT law enforcement under Trump’s command on-site?
I’d settle for law enforcement. There’s a question today about how many of these rioters were able to get in. And another about how they wre able to get back out.