The Male Inequality Problem

I don’t know how the average middle class family is compared to us. We make, at times, an upper middle class income and live mostly like average middle class people, with a few luxuries. I think something that appears to have changed is that back when I was a kid, if you wanted to buy a house or pay off debt or something, you could skip that vacation and have fewer lattes and change your financial situation for the better.

The little nice things we have, dinners out, streaming services and various subscriptions, they are a pittance relative to our basic and necessary living expenses. Easily less than 5%. The overwhelming majority of our expenses are health insurance, food, childcare, rent, and student loans. If I never had another slice of avocado toast in my life it wouldn’t make one iota of difference. We don’t really live in a world anymore when you can just buckle down and get it done. So it doesn’t make a lot of financial sense to live an austere lifestyle unless you absolutely have to.

(Maybe it’s different for other families but I feel like a lot of people these days are in the same boat.)

Exactly my thoughts.

As someone said, “A middle-class lifestyle used to be the consolation prize for Americans. Now it has become the grand prize itself.”

Who said that? I’m curious.

It’s the wider and higher income segment of the population that’s concerning.

Take my family for example. We have a net worth in the top 4% of households in the US. My wife and I are both highly educated with relevant undergrads degrees and MBAs from top schools. We live within our means, no debt outside of our mortgages, and don’t really have any overtly destructive vices. We drive 10+ year old reliable shitboxes instead of expensive cars. I’m currently unemployed and we still have to concern ourselves with costs related to childcare, education, and my wife’s parent’s health. A number of my friends with similar backgrounds are unemployed. Even with a large helpful network that includes executives in big tech, FAANG companies, investments banks, Mckinsey, the Big 4 and Fortune 500 companies, it’s still hard finding a job.

The point being that if people in my upper income demographic can’t feel financially secure, I can imagine how a median family making $60k a year is supposed to.

Well said.

I think the center of your personal issue is that jobs in your career field are very tenuous & giggy even by contemporary standards. When you’re working, the money is GREAT by ordinary American standards. But that also means it’s a high wire with a long way to fall when e.g. $200K suddenly turns into $0.

As a result, a prudent player in your space really needs to pretend their take-home pay is about half what it is to account for the fact it’s not probably not coming all 12 months of this year or any year.

I had a sorta similar precariousness in that I worked as a union worker in a seniority-based field for a company that spent 25 years teetering in and out of bankruptcy. I wasn’t there that whole time, but much of it.

It was a huge gamble: proactively change companies and start over at the bottom of the seniority pile with the shitty life and low newbie status and wages all over again? Guaranteed to never achieve the (well paid) upper ranks before aging out into retirement? O stick it out here for an OK-not-great wage with tolerable workplace status while hoping like hell every day that this place survives another 20 years to retirement? Scary stressful shit I assure you.

Living on half your take home income and saving / investing the rest was the norm. Along with having a second business / side hustle to back up your precarious main job. Which habit eventually paid off quite nicely for me, thank you. Now retired, I’m not quite a 1%er, but close. With luck I’ll get there, albeit too late to really enjoy it.

If you and your wife both had fairly secure jobs as generic middle / upper-middle managers, where you could reliably assume you could serve at least 10 years in each position without a forced job change, your financial position, and more importantly your psychological / emotional position would be utterly different, even if your W2s were the same as now (when you’re working).


Moving on to the macro case ... IMO it's the loss of the "jobs for life" that is killing (has killed?) the middle class. Or at least the jobs for life assumption.

Joe Lunchbucket down at the (non-union) plant may not make a great wage, but he knew he could count on it as he was considering buying a car. Whether he was paying cash from savings or getting a car loan he knew he’d have the future paycheck cashflow to refill the savings or pay the loan payments. Even less “glamorous” jobs like poor Brenda slinging hash down at the diner could reasonably count on the diner staying in business for decades and as long as she kept showing up, old Mel the owner would keep paying her. And the customers would keep showing up, so Mel would have the cashflow to do so.

To be sure, there’s some rose-tinted glasses in my story. Businesses large and small shut down or moved all the time even during the glory days of the post-war boom. But they were the exception not the rule. Ordinary people reasonably expected, and usually experienced, that their current job would last until they themselves voluntarily moved on or they screwed it up by drinking, fighting, whatever and got fired.

Nowadays churn for churn’s sake is the standard. It’s all about the numbers for the big money that controls the corporate world, and the shop floor workers and middle managers are at the tip of that whip being cracked daily.

The latest statistic I read was that men successfully match with 2% of the people they swipe yes on and women match with 36% of the people they swipe yes on. Part of this, I’m sure, is that women’s feeds are packed with men that already said yes (so they are much more likely to get matches because they are seeing people that already picked them), but part of it is that women are far more choosy (though they really have to be, because they have 10 matches after 30 yes swipes and simply can’t seriously talk to all the people that match with them).

Those are specifically Tinder statistics, a site that’s 76% male, and where - prepare yourself - “…the majority of women on Tinder swipe right, about 1 in 20 people (5%), while men swipe right every second person (53%).”

I guess women are indeed more selective, and it’s definitely their market to control, but what exactly are those guys looking for?

According to reddit (I know), swiping right too often makes the app think you’re a bot, and gets you shadowbanned, so nobody ever sees your profile. Could explain a lot.

That makes sense, and it doesn’t even have to be specifically programmed to do it, if they’re using machine learning…people with very low match rates would be deprioritized. And if the average is a little over 50%, that means some of those fellows are swiping most or all of the time.

It is and it isn’t.

First there is a fundamental philosophical question of what type of job is more “secure”. One where there is a big market of similar, if not identical, firms and roles and even independent work where one is free to shuffle back and forth every few years. Or staying forever at a big well known company where you receive regular stable 3% raises and title-bump promotions, but if you are laid off after 15, 20, 30 years from the main employer in Cincinnati, OH or Minneapolis, MN it might be hard to find a similar esoteric middle manager role without moving across the country.

Second, I didn’t expect my profession to be as “giggy” as it came to be any more than I would have assumed being an attorney in a major law firm or a Big-4 accountant would be “giggy” and transactional. At worst I assumed I’d spend a few years travelling as a Deloitte consultant and “exit” into a traditional big corporate role in “industry”.

Third, I believe much of the growth of the consulting industry itself is symptom of the general “gigification” of corporate America. There is a misconception that consulting firms are flying high paid experts around the country whispering advanced strategy in CEO’s ears. Accenture has over 700,000 employees. The Big-4 firms have hundreds of thousands. Mckinsey, Bain, and BCG have tens of thousands. And there are hundreds of other firms. These aren’t millions of “experts”. It’s a a sort of “arbitrage” for highly educated TEMPORARY technical and business labor.

Finally, “sticking it out for 25 years in a seniority-based company teetering in and out of bankruptcy in a low-paid, tolerable low to mid-level workplace status job with OK-not-great wages hoping like hell every day that this place survives another 20 years to retirement”? I imagine my psychological / emotional position WOULD be utterly different. It would be “positioned” splattered against the wall of my Dilbert cubicle (or whatever sort of setup).

Either way, as a man I don’t want to be in a position where I feel like I’m trapped by a job I hate for decades.

Yes, the apps most definitely wear men down. I worked with someone that spent 5 hours his first day on Tinder getting to his 100 matches (before the app said he needed to pay to continue). The next day he spent 2 hours getting to 100 more matches (because he got no results from the first day’s work). The following day was more like 30 to 60 minutes.

After many days of spending hours being selective and getting next to no results, men tend to become less discriminating. The apps basically teach them that their value is far lower than they first thought and matching with nearly anyone at all is difficult, so they lower their standard relatively quickly.

There seems to be some missing words or misplaced punctuation in that sentence. How can 1 in 20 (5%) of people be a majority?

And is “swipe right” approval or disapproval? I’m guessing approval.

I’m not disagreeing; I just don’t understand.


As a separate matter I find the idea that e.g. Tinder is a very large number of men saying “yes” to most of the few women while the few women say “yes” to a tiny fraction of the many men to oddly echo the process by which eggs & sperm come together.

It also directly goes with sex strategies for a K-selection species.

Agreed.

My other parallel career to that union one I described one was as a software dev & later exec. I spent some time in the ranks of “consultant” (read “temp worker”) dev although not at your relatively rarified level. I got away from the temp gig treadmill as fast as I could. But I know the pain and uncertainty that’s totally baked into it. And that everybody on both sides of the transaction just accepts as normal, net of some grousing.

I agree that the gigification of America is ongoing and is a disaster for everyone but fatcat shareholders. I agree that you, and I, when back in school had no reason to expect gigification was ever going to start, much less overtake your role in midcareer.

Once again it’s an expectations-reality mismatch. However bad a situation is objectively (and this one is bad), it’ll be subjectively the worser the farther below one’s expectations it falls.

IMHO that’s part of the digital enshitification of everything. It turns everyone into a collection of searchable metrics in a market of “everyone”. It’s why every woman thinks they can go on an online dating site and find the 1%of men who are taller than 6” and earn more than $100,000. Or why everyone company seems to spend forever searching for some unicorn candidate.

You mean besides Smurfette? :wink:

If something happened to my husband, I think I’d rather spend the rest of my life alone than use an online dating app.

Oops! Wrong measurement!

Not necessarily?:wink:

Perhaps those women could meet men at Stonehenge?