Not “toxic masculinity” … not explicitly harm causing behaviors … and not all of the behaviors in that “act like a man” box are necessarily harmful to others or the individual themself. The rigid application of it, the boxing in, is the problem more than the behaviors.
It is really a different concept than defining the harm causing behaviors, the toxicity, as masculinity.
An illustration, my father. The stereotype of masculinity for his era. A boxer in his youth. Stoic. Cried once that I ever saw, when his youngest child was suspected of having meningitis and was getting a spinal tap (me) - a “manly” (of his time and place) time to cry. Family focused and protective. His sexism caused harm - sent an inequitable message to his two male children compared to his three daughters - but I wouldn’t use “toxic masculinity” there when “sexism” is a clearer word.
I don’t assume that anyone using the phrase is misandric, I suspect few consider the harm the phrase causes. But it is of harm.
Fwiw, i have never used the phrase “toxic masculinity” to mean “toxic gender expectations”. I think of it as meaning toxic behaviors that are stereotypically masculine, and the only time i can think of that I’ve used it myself was jokingly, referring to dairy bulls. (Actually, maybe i said they suffered from testosterone poisoning.)
The place I’ve seen it discussed, many years ago, was in a Facebook group started by a trans man, discussing gender roles. Maybe he titled the group sometime like “avoiding toxic masculinity”.
Ah. Can you see the implicit bias in that framing?
If it read “obnoxious behaviors that are stereotypically Jewish” how would you consider the framing?
I was not a huge fan of the article linked to in the OP but they brought up the harms of the phrase at least: the accepted archetype, the stereotype, of masculinity is toxic behaviors and “non-toxic masculinity” is either a null set or being what the writer would state are feminine stereotypes.
I feel like that’s the first step toward being unnecessarily divisive. Mention “toxic gender expectations” and the next question is “which ones apply to men and which ones apply to women?”
I’m fine with “toxic expectations”; one inclusive term for what we all deal with in different ways.
Yes, i can certainly see why a man would be offended by it. And it’s not a phrase I’ve ever used to describe people, quote possibly because i understood that on some level.
I’m basically agreeing with you here, and disagreeing with @Kimstu . I don’t think their use is the common understanding of the term.
There is though a reasonable counterpoint to mine.
There are significant filters in how being a good person of ethics and values play out based on gender in specific cultures at specific times. Already referenced is that even a short grey beard like me is possibly perceived as a threat to a woman in a secluded area so manly includes my respecting that; not a behavior that a woman has to consider. But also if I am strongly assertive I may be viewed as strong or at worst might get tarred as toxic masculinity or privileged, maybe scary; the woman has smaller range before she is called a bitch, hysterical or if white, a Karen. A man is protective of his family; a woman goes Mama Bear …
I’ll stand by my definition but I can’t pretend that the stereotypes, the boxes, the gender expectations, are of no impact on how we each act, including the caricature manifestations of the boxes that a few act out.
That I may define masculinity just as being a mensch and that to me that is not per se gendered (despite the word’s literal translation) just what a good person does while being that gender, but the ways that a man and a woman are good people with ethics and a moral code (mensches) play out and are interpreted are still viewed through gender expectation lenses. (Negative behaviors, what is negative, as well.)
Awww, let’s feel so sowwy for the poor males and their delicate sense of self and accomplishment ::classic sarcastic SDMB rolleyes::
I personally did not feel inclined to try to rescue the construct “masculine” from the sewer in which I found it. I was born male but never had any particular inclination to define my self-worth as having diddly-squat to do with maleness.
It’s attitudes like this that contribute to an atmosphere where a lot of men feel as though they can’t even talk about their problems. You might as well tell them to sack up and be a man.
Thank you for providing such a clear and obvious example that there is a male inequality problem. That some people are incapable of even listening to the abstract idea that a man can experience negative emotions without responding with ridicule.