And while clearly there are some people who don’t care, there are also a lot of people who don’t want to have sex with somebody who doesn’t like or respect them. Including not wanting to with someone who’s pretending liking and respect in order to get into their pants. That’s a pretty nasty thing to do.
Most people of any gender will do some work and make some compromises in orders to keep the relationship. That’s the nature of living as a member of a social species. If one person’s doing all the work and all the compromising, then something’s seriously wrong: either the other partner’s a total asshole, or the two are just a bad match and should each find someone better suited.
For that matter, people not in a relationship have to do a lot of things they don’t want to. If I don’t do the dishes, they ain’t getting done.
Yes, that’s a bizarre complaint. I have to do some work and make some compromises for every relationship I’m in. I do work for my employer. I empty the litter boxes for my cats, and I’m about to take one to a groomer to get his mats removed. If I’m playing a board game with friends, and it takes forever, and i get bored, i don’t just get up and leave, i finish the game. Yes, i do things for my husband. That’s part of being in a relationship.
It’s not a complaint. It’s just a fact of relationships.
What is bizarre is that it seems like either a lot of people don’t want to have to deal with that at all or something about the way the internet and social media works promotes the idea people cutting off relationships at the slightest inconvenience. Possibly due to a general technocratic culture of “removing friction” in nearly every human interaction and algorithms maximizing engagement (solitary loners are more likely to engage in solitary activities like engaging with social media)
IOW promoting a belief that men (and women) are “kings” (and “queens”) where only their personal needs, wants, and desires matter and any demand for cooperation or compromise is an attack on their “manliness” (or “feminine empowerment”).
“Putting up” with someone’s bullshit is disrespectful. If you see it as bullshit, that’s already a sign to go find someone else. Not just for your sake.
I think this really is the crux of a lot of this. I am happily in a long-term relationship. If it fell apart, I would rather be alone than be with someone who frames their thinking the way you do (nothing personal, sorry ). That doesn’t mean I think everything must be perfect, or there are no compromises to be made.
I have no motivation to change my thinking about this, because it’s not keeping me from happiness and companionship. If men are lacking in happiness and companionship, they can’t expect women to take on a worse deal out of pity. That won’t end well for anyone.
This may be a disagreement over vocabulary. I think we all have stupid irrational needs that we expect our partners to meet. I am not troubled calling that “bullshit”. I have bullshit needs, my husband has bullshit needs, just because we’re human. Now, if you don’t respect your partner because you resent meeting those needs, that’s a problem. If you don’t respect your partner for any reason, that’s a red flag and yes, you should leave the relationship if you can.
I’ve heard of people trying to cut down on toxic relationships. (like ones where their partner doesn’t respect them.) But I’ve never heard anyone seriously say they were attempting to “remove friction” in social engagements. I don’t doubt that someone, somewhere on the Internet, is advocating that. But if that’s what you are seeing, i recommend you look for healthier places to surf.
Yes, I am sure that underneath the vocabulary we all have a lot in common, and it’s absolutely worth digging into that in a message board discussion.
In my relationship, we sometimes have arguments that come out of language misunderstandings. English is not my partner’s first language, so that would be unavoidable. We have both compromised and adapted the way we say things in order to communicate better. We couldn’t do that without a fundamental level of respect for one another.
By “remove friction” I simply mean removing the things that annoy or delay. Think like an using an app to order your coffee ahead. The intent is to save you time by eliminating your need to stand in line, place your order with a human, then mill about the coffee shop until it’s ready.
The unintended consequence is that it ha turned the local coffee shop from a place where people congregate, hang out, and interact into an automated kiosk.
I think that tech-driven mentality of wanting everything to be immediate and hassle free has seemed into how people interact with each other in almost all aspects of life. In a sense, online dating and social media and technology in general has both turned dating into the equivalent of a Starbucks kiosk where you place an order. Whereas back in the old days, maybe you might have met someone while waiting in line.
As it pertains to relationships, it think it can create a sort of Larry David / Seinfeld mentality where people are content in their little worlds with their entertainments and they can’t be in a relationship because they can’t deal with the other person having any sort of differences or needs that impose on their own, regardless of how minor. Because in their mind, it feels like “settling” until they eventually find that true perfect match.
