The morality police go after gambling

I see the problem here; you must live in the U.K. Well, here in America, we don’t have a Conservative Party. Our major parties are the Democrats and the Republicans. I can see how you made the mistake. Of course, had he mentioned, even once, the Party of John Kyl and how it relates to his stance on the issue, then I might see how he had introduced partisanship to the discussion.

Of course, upon rereading with this newfound knowledge, it will be easy for you to see how the OP did not mention anything about party politics, but about the particular politics of Sen. John Kyl, what he views as a hypocrisy—one which, in fact, not only permeates the entirety of modern conservatism, but most of any mainstream political affiliation.

Or in the more direct words of BayleDomon, bull fucking shit.

Ah, again, I would be interested to see you attempt to point out exactly where the OP introduced his arguments against Republicans, but I will save you the trouble since he did no such thing. This clearly demonstrates the immaturity of your knee-jerk, political wisdumb, considering your hastiness to assume his correctly labeling of a single man as conservative, and subsequent criticism of this man’s views, as an attack on Republicans that you felt the necessity to refute along bullshit party lines.

“Behold the superfluous! They steal the works of the inventors and of the sages for themselves; “education” they call their theft…”

Ah, the danger of idiocy mixed with the internet. I might be impressed, but Since anyone can Google tu quoque, I am not. You would have had a shot if you had bothered reading one of them. You lament about people lacking high school debate skills, yet you clearly fall short of the mark yourself. It has sadly become the new internet cliché to spout of logical fallacies as though you are some sort of logic machine, yet what is lost in all of this self fellating is subtlety. Your obvious tu quoque (which was observed by others as well), was fueled by your hasty generalizations and straw men regarding the OP’s ‘attack’ on, let’s say, non-Democrats. Your response? “But the Democrats do it to!! I have a cite to prove it!!”

Ah, if only this were the only depth to the tu quoque fallacy, you might have a leg to stand on.

And yet again, a childlike, over simplistic view of both politics and verbal logic. The world is hardly stratified into only “conservatives” and “liberals," and logic is not as cut and dry as the golden calf you have made it out to be.

[sigh]

No one is impressed with your nonsense, and your thick-headedness in the face of multiple posters shoving your face in your obvious shit like a dog who refuses to learn his lesson is laughable.

I now wash my hands of this pissing contest, I would rather just watch you embarrass yourself.

Speaking as a lifelong PA resident, Rep. Paul Clymer has consistently voted the nanny slate, and after 25 years of this horse’s ass, he’s one of many poster children for term limits.
(If the relevance seems absent-refer to post #10)

Because any sincere attempt to enforce morality implies big government. Really big government. John Law is intrusive enough when he tries to keep us from taking drugs. If he tries to regulate our bedrooms, he’s gonna have to have all sorts of powers, and all sorts of bureaucracies and so forth to make it possible for him to exercise them.

Translation: “We want to let Big Business rob you blind while curtailing any activities you might have that can be described as ‘fun’.” Why the fuck people EVER vote conservative, I will never understand, because Bricker is exactly right about conservative goals and my translation is spot on.

Like bondage.

Even if I did – that’s the fallacy of amphiboly, or possibly equivocation. Not tu quoque.

I happen to think many people here are impressed by my nonsense. Have you taken a survey? Is this the royal ‘we’ in operation here?

How, specifically, does the above show my use of tu quoque?

It’s amazing for you to speak of subtlety in one breah, and completely disregard it in the next. It’s arguable that I did say, in effect, “But the Democrats do it too!” But that alone does not constitute a tu quoque argument. Come, let us reason together, and you shall learn the error of your ways.

For example: let us say that some morons - or, better yet for teaching purposes, let us say you - advance the following argument:

Cast your vote for Democrats, the ethical party! Republicans are mired with scandal, and several prominent Republicans have been indicted!

In response to this, someone says: “Democratic politicians have also been indicted, and mired in scandal!”

Is that a tu quoque response?

(Hint: no)

Why?

Yes, and if they’re conservative, they’re relevant to the OP.

Heaps. And if they’re conservative, they’re relevant to the OP.

Sure! And if the Democrats are conservatives, they’re relevant to the OP.

Absolutely! And since the OP specifically mentioned conservatives, and since it’s possible for Democrats to be conservatives, then some of the Democrats you’ve mentioned are quite possibly guilty of the same hypocrisy as the legislator the OP mentions.

If they aren’t, however, they’re putzes and fucktards for different reasons, ones not relevant to the OP.

Funny, I don’t see you criticizing the subject of the OP, just stomping your feet and yelling that Democrats do it, too.

You know what’s funny? I actually opened up this thread expecting to see a big ol’ shitstorm about gambling. :dubious:

I have posted in excess of fifty times on this board about my gambling, my feeling that gambling should be legal, and my disdain at criticism of gambling. Why should I keep typing that out over and over again? I’ve ALREADY criticized the subject of the OP. Multiple times. I’ve yelled and screamed about it. Why should I do it again?

Why is it that only conservatives are the subject of his ire?

Well, I’ve made my position clear that I support legalized gambling. There are certain political positions that I would expect to agree with this position on principle. Those that ostensibly espouse those positions but are actually hypocrites receive my ire. Those that don’t I merely disagree with, but see no reason to get angry at them.

If a prominent death penalty opponent suddenly makes an exception when her husband is killed, she’s a hypocrite and should be pitted for it.

If a prominent death penalty proponent supports giving the death sentence to her husband’s killer, then I see nothing pit-worthy, even if I personally oppose the death penalty.

Do you get it now, Bricker?

Finally, a reading comprehension test. When a newspaper article says that 100% of the Republican representatives in the state legislature are opposed to a lottery, and a handful of Democrats are, giving the “antis” just enough votes to block the bill, which of the following is a more accurate summary of the article:

  1. Democrats block efforts to legalize lottery.
  2. Republicans block efforts to legalize lottery.

Note that neither is 100% accurate. I’m just looking for the more accurate version.

Bricker, just let it go. You made a stupid argument, and you were called on it. Please stop arguing, you are embarrassing yourself.

As I tried to note before, it’s because he perceived it as hypocritical, whereas it wouldn’t be if the congressman held a more liberal philosophy. Making a case that conservative and liberal philosophies have changed in recent years would probably gain more ground than trying to say ‘Stop picking on just Republicans!’ Trying to insist that the OP must direct his ire to everyone instead of just one particular conservative (or conservatives) is trying to draw a false equivalency, because conservative and liberal philosophies are not the same.

I shouldn’t even be getting back into this, as I have neither the time nor ability for a prolonged hash-out, but I see more reflexive retaliation in your responses to this thread than real arguments.

You had options. You could have refrained from posting at all. Or you could have crafted a response that both joined with his denouncement of HIS OWN representative as well as brought up additional offenders. Had that been your purpose you could have brought up both Republicans and Democrats who seek to limit online gambling.

Instead you chose to respond in a way to criticize the OP for singling out HIS OWN representative by bringing up offenders in OTHER STATES who “just happened” to be Democrats. It is obvious that you bristled at the condemnation of a conservative (and a Republican) and you only sought to bring up Democrats to deflect attention rather than add to his criticism.

As it is, I agree that it’s hypocritical of people who belive in personal freedoms to seek to limit online gambling, as well as other so-called vices. Unfortunately, I don’t think there are many politicians of any stripe who are really for increasing personal freedoms. Too many social conservatives want to legislate against the Seven Deadly Sins and too many “liberals” want to censor video games and other forms of entertainment.

I think there’s another source of confusion of the relationship ‘conservatives’ have with gambling.

Broad brush here, but conservatives tend to support economic freedoms (lower taxes, less regulation of business, etc.) more than liberals do. The opposite is be true for personal freedoms – liberals are more likely to support drug legalization and abortion rights.

The freedom to gamble is sort of a hybrid liberty. It’s economic in that it involves money, but it’s certainly a personal freedom as well. For this reason, it’s not clear to me that conservatives are unanimous as to how to treat it.

E.g., here in Maryland, the Republican governor (Ehrlich) favors slot machines. House Democrats oppose him. But some of their staunchest allies are religious Democrats, who can be quite conservative on social issues, but have weighed in against gambling.

Hence the disagreement in this thread about whether conservatives are being hypocrites when they oppose gambling.

FWIW, I believe that Democratic politicians in the Maryland House are partially motivated by simple knee-jerk partisanism.

It seems you have overlooked this post Bricker.

Well, I wasn’t gonna bring it up, but now that you mention it … :smiley:

And THIS is a well-balanced and nuanced criticism – with which I agree completely.

No. It’s just that one line doesn’t prove the entirety of the man’s philosophy.