I’m still with Nancy.
I think it’s impossible to tell from the outside whether she doesn’t want impeachment, or if she is actually open to it. If she did want to see Trump impeached, then it would still be in the best strategic interest to say she didn’t want to, and to wait until the time is right, whereupon she can say her hand has been forced. It is better optics for it to be seen as the Democrats being dragged reluctantly towards impeachment, than for them to be seen to be clamoring for it.
The fact that Nixon’s support fell steadily in 1973 but Trump’s has not - what does that tell you? Trump’s support has remained steady despite the fact that Trump has committed some of the very same offenses that Nixon’s presidency committed. Nixon’s support cratered; Trump’s has not. What does that tell you? Think about it.
As to his second point, I agree that impeachment doesn’t have to start out as a bipartisan effort - Nixon’s impeachment and his defense were both partisan. But there’s one very important difference. Democrats had a strong majority in both houses. In 2019, the Dems just took back the House after being out of it for the last 8 years, and they’re actually weaker in the Senate now, and worse, might become even weaker in the Senate in 2021. Again, this isn’t a courtroom - this is politics we’re talking about here.
Hassan’s third point: we’re already divided. Yes, we are. That wasn’t her point. Her point is, we’re divided, and we’re in the minority. That’s the point. We’re trying to take back the White House from a buffoon and a party, and we were partly successful in retaking the House in 2018 because the Republican party defeated itself. Maybe the smart strategy is to let the party continue beating itself – or if not the party, maybe let their idiot boy party leader at least beat himself and embarrass the rest of the party. And I’ll remind you: it’s not like we’re saying we can’t continue having investigations, and it’s not like we’re saying we can’t ever impeach.
I agree with him on the point about energizing Trump’s base. I think they’re already energized, and impeachment might not really bring out many more Trump supporters.
Whether Trump wants to be impeached or not depends on the timing. I think Trump wants to be impeached right now, which is why I think the previous argument about Trump’s base is probably not that valid. I don’t think Trump needs impeachment to fire up his base; instead, what Trump needs from an impeachment is an exoneration. If he’s going to be impeached, he needs it now, when voters see decades low unemployment and 3.1% economic growth. If those numbers change, then the dynamics of an impeachment change considerably. Trump wants to be able to say “You see, you had your impeachment. The country is tired of this. Time to move on.” It’s hard to see how the country would disagree with that assessment.
But here’s where all of these roads lead: yes, I understand that the House has its “duty” to be the check on the presidency. I think they’re already doing that, though. They’re already attempting to provide oversight; the president isn’t complying. That’s why we have courts, but even more importantly - most importantly - that’s why we have elections. It wasn’t Republicans who installed Trump; it was the voters who put him in power. Donald Trump is the product of America’s voters. Our nation’s voters created this problem. I submit that he’s ultimately our problem to fix. You want Trump out of the White House? Beat him in an election.
She’s totally open to impeachment, but not until there’s evidence it would succeed. She doesn’t want her party to lose its focus on all of the many other important arguments that we could be making to voters. Do we want 2020 to be the year that Democrats campaigned on things like healthcare and economic justice, or do we want that to be the year that we become so obsessed with impeachment that the message didn’t go through?
Look, Hillary Clinton and all of his GOP challengers in 2016 campaigned against him by saying “Vote for me, Trump’s an asshole.” Guess what? Voters opted for the asshole. They knowingly voted eyes wide open for someone who ran a racist, anti-immigrant, authoritarian campaign and who admitted to sexual assault on a live mic. Shit not even Nixon ran that kind of campaign.
We’re in a different world now. Trump’s approval will be between 40% and 42.5%, just like it’s been since early last year, no matter what.
Why that should be an obstacle to impeachment, fuck-all if you’ve ever explained that. You don’t need the 40% to be OK with it, just the people who voted Dem last year, though winning over some of the remaining 5-8% undecideds wouldn’t hurt.
Whatever the new House members actually ran on, what carried them in was a wave of anti-Trump antipathy. That antipathy is still there. That, plus actually seeing the case against Trump, should more than suffice.
Now remember, we’re not talking about removal, because just like we’re not in Nixon’s world, we’re not in a world where 20 GOP Senators are going to vote to give Trump the boot. We’re just talking about making Trump politically toxic to everyone but his hardcore 40%. That’s the goal here.
This isn’t rocket science. You impeach in 2019, and run on health care and economic justice in 2020. The Dems can walk one day, and chew gum the next. Sheesh.
I think that the ideal scenario is for Trump to get impeached by the House, acquitted in the Senate (thus setting in record for history just how corrupt this Republican Party is/was), and then have Trump defeated in the presidential election.
To not impeach would be both a neglection of duty and unsatisfying. It would certainly be more satisfying if Trump was marked by impeachment in the historical record, even if he wasn’t removed from office.
If Trump were hypothetically removed from office through impeachment, that would be unsatisfying, because he would not have been defeated by the people’s vote in an election. Trump and his base would decry it a coup by the “Deep State”, and that Republican senators were now somehow part of it.
So, for me, the most satisfying option would be for Trump to be impeached and voted out of office.
Okay, then let’s impeach Trump right now.
I have to agree with you here. Impeachment then voted OUT, unless for some reason the GOP Senate GETS reason in their brains and votes him out too.
The Dems aren’t exciting me at all right now. Saying you’re with impeachment isn’t saying “I will be heading an impeachment committee and I am asking these senators to join me tomorrow…” or something along those lines. Nancy’s waiting for… whatever to happen.
But I’d say those of us who feel we need another crisis wholly attributed to Der Twitler that can’t be hand-waved away are probably right. (Most likely a financial one.) Maybe that’s the caution the Dems feel? I’m just saying, we hear the words, where’s the action?
You know what? Fuck it. Impeach now.
Don’t wait, do it now.
Right fucking now.
I want the mother fucker impeached right this god damn minute. Don’t wait for investigations becuase that’s being a puss. The American people are too stupid to understand that they really want him impeached even though they don’t want to.
Dipshit, the investigations are part of the impeachment process.
Again, it’s a tragedy that you believe that honor requires the consent of those with no honor, but you do you, Asahi.
Hey dipshit, guess what? There are investigations now, you fucking tard.
Impeach the mother fucker now. Why be a fucking coward about it? If you want to impeach before the majority of the country is ready, then GROW A FUCKING NUTSACK AND IMPEACH RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
IF not, shut the fuck up bitch and admit that maybe people like Pelosi have been playing the game of politics since you were pissing in your bedsheets and just shut the fuck up and let them play this out.
Which is it, bitch boy?
Yes. Start the process right fucking now. He’s out of the country. He’ll first hear about it from the furriner reporters, get all blustered, order another tariff, etc. I would prefer to see some action, some effort.
Fuck it.
Impeach now.
Right now.
Call your reps up, and demand impeachment.
Do it, let’s fucking go! Call your local rep and get it on, or shut the fuck up coward.
Which is it?
Deep breaths, A. Deeeeeeep.
I’m not leaving some ranting voicemail on a Saturday night, I will call when back in CA this week. Right now taking care of mom far away.
RELAX!
You’re letting yourself get frustrated with this argument and melting down a bit. Don’t melt down. Seriously. Take a deep breath and step away for a day if you have to.
At the end of the day there is actually very, very little anyone here can do to influence Pelosi or the House. They will do what they are going to do and all the badgering of our representatives we may or may not do is probably going to have exactly shit-all effect.
Everyone here is just more or less powerlessly arguing about what they would like them to do. That’s all. And 85-90% of this board is more or less in the same anti-Trump camp and are just arguing the tactics they’d like to see. It’s not worth getting angry about the decisions we’re not going to make.
No fuck you, geniuses.
Fucking impeach right now! You know what? That’s what I want. I want you idealistic animals to get all this “Impeach now!” and “Billionaire class rigged the election for Hillary” shit outta your system now. I want you, the voters, to ejaculate, to urinate, to defecate, to get it all out of your mother fucking system now.
If Trump wins, fuck it, more power to him. I don’t care. The problem isn’t Trump, it’s the goddamn fucking morons who vote.
“Brother, can you spare a dime?”
“Well, gosh, guy. I did a poll of 1,055 random people, of whom 40% identified as assholes, and those 40% are telling me I shouldn’t spare a dime. I will, though, once that 40% drop to, say 28%. Deal?”
“…”
“My hands are tied, I don’t know what to do. Cute kid you have there. He looks hungry- wish I could help, but my hands are tied.”
Our brave internet warrior walks away. Before he gets ten feet, he feels a slight tug on his sleeve.
“Mister? Please, I’m so hungry!”
“You know what? Fuck you, kid! Here’s your goddamned dime if it means so fucking much to you! Now you’re going to get that 40% mad, and don’t say I didn’t warn you!”
Throwing a dime over the kids head, our brave internet warrior turns, stomps away, cursing anyone and everyone he meets.