You mean, the very fact I’ve acknowledged repeatedly in this thread?
Hell, I’m the guy who keeps insisting that if the House impeaches, the Senate won’t even hold a trial.
Seriously, WTF, dude??
Then what is the point of an impeachment if they’re not going to hold a trial? WTF, dude?
- To bring together all of the separate investigations into a single inquiry, rather than a scattered group of isolated news bites.
- Use that inquiry in various races in 2020, nailing down various politicians on their positions, rather than letting them equivocate.
- Take some initiative (for a change), rather than letting the Republicans set the pace. Push harder, more aggresively*. It’s awfully hard to win a war when you’re always on the defensive.
Look, most of us pushing for an impeachment inquiry know that there is almost no chance that Trump will be convicted in the Senate.
Fine.
I think, however, that the inquiry will kick up more public reaction against Trump, when all of this information about what he’s been doing is being released by one source, not by a bewildering variety of Congressional committees and subcommittees and so on.
I don’t think the (probable) acquittal in the Senate will aid Trump much, if at all, in 2020. His base** won’t get much more fanatical or any less apt to vote, nor do I believe it’ll affect the undecided on way or another. Because, let’s face it, if you’re undecided, it’s because you’re not paying attention, and won’t remember or care about the acquittal in a few months time.
And who knows? If Congress can get its act together and actually get subpoenas and witnesses to work, something may come up that even the Republicans can’t ignore. Especially if it comes with asahi’s prayed-for economic collapse or failed war.***
*Also on other matters, like not letting subpoenas to go on being ignored without penalty.
**When I say his base, I mean the ones who believe in him, that he will save them, and who will never abandon him - not the ones who voted for him because he was “different” or interesting, the ones who voted for Obama the cycle before. Flavor of the month voters.
***A failed war isn’t immediately obvious, by the way. Takes a few years for it to sink in, that all the fighting won’t win the war.
And an unjust war is only obvious to those who don’t support the one who starts the war.
Good post; however, I don’t think it’s accurate to say Democrats are on the defensive. They’re going on the attack. They’re pestering Trump. It’s just a matter of when to cross the Rubicon and launch the final assault.
It’s worth repeating. Trump may not want to be impeached a year from now, but I think he absolutely wants to be impeached now. He thrives on outrage, because outrage sows divisions. I concede that it could turn out to be a miscalculation on his part, or that other things could happen that would make him less popular and more impeachable. But I think Trump wants to rush impeachment. He wants Democrats to rush into an impeachment in which the party is disorganized and divided, and no matter how “right” impeachment feels, that’s also a factor. Since the Democrats will almost surely be mounting a partisan impeachment, they all generally have to be on the same page, and they’re not. And Nancy Pelosi is far from the only Democrat who’s cautious on impeachment.
My calculation is that if given enough time, Trump will fuck himself and his party. And when that happens, not only will more Democrats stand in unison to remove him, but perhaps more independents and Republicans as well. The important thing is to remove him from office, not just through impeachment but preferably by way of election. There is no stronger statement than a repudiation by voters themselves, which honestly, is the real problem that needs to be addressed in this political system of ours. People need their values changed, and I think the only way that happens is for people to recognize their mistakes, own up to them, and correct them in the next election. We can debate what is meant by “recognize” and “own up to” but corrective action takes place in the form of having voters crush the GOP at the polls.
Look, I’ve said over and over and over again in this thread, starting in post 318, that I don’t expect a trial. You’re just now having the light-bulb moment in post 462 that that’s what I’ve been saying. You clearly haven’t bothered to actually read my posts before replying.
Obviously, I’ve made a case for impeachment in all those posts that does not rely in the least on the Senate having a trial, let alone removal of Trump from office. You can go back and read my posts for the first time, or kindly bugger off.
The debate seems to hinge on the question will an impeachment acquittal (or dismissal without trial) grease the skids for a second term for the America-hating fuckstick?
Alternatively, it hinges on the question if we take as a given that it will, is doing the “right” thing by proceeding with an impeachment that returns him to office in 2020 (AND further empowers the GOP) an overarching good in its own right?
I’m taking the PRO side on the first question, and the CON side on the second.
I understand you and others think that way. But Pelosi seems to think it will just make trump stronger. OR maybe she thinks now is not the time, wait until the election is closer.
Either way, I am certain she knows best in this.
My impeachment fantasy: on August 27, 2020, the America-hating fuckstick accepts the Republican nomination for a second term.
On September 1, 2020, against all expectations, the Senate returns verdicts of “guilty” on all articles of impeachment, removing him from office and rendering him ineligible to be re-inaugurated if he should win in November (constitutionally, he would be barred from holding the position, but not from standing for election).
I’ll concede this: regardless of what anyone thought before yesterday, Mueller’s statements just made it a lot harder for Pelosi to hold off on impeachment. He made it abundantly clear he disagrees with Barr’s characterization of his work.
Nancy, please. I want to continue to respect you. But this is jumping-the-shark territory.
I just watched Real Time from last night, there was a clip of a woman who said, until she went to a town hall, she had no idea that Trump had done anything wrong. She gets all her news from FOX. As much as I hate Trump and the MAGA hat wearing morons,what would you think if you thought FOX was a real news channel, and that is all you knew?
Now the 25% will never be convinced, we don’t need them to be. Trump’s approval rating is about 42%, if only half of them turn against him, whoever is running for the Dems wins in a landslide.
Seriously.
umm a bit more of the quote from the Jimmy Kimmel show -
(above underline mine) I donno, maybe because he’s a fucking criminal?
Public support for the impeachment of Nixon didn’t become a majority opinion until a couple of weeks or so before his resignation. When the impeachment inquiry commenced, on 6th February 1974, it looks to have been around 37%. However, Nixon’s approval rating was lower.
So it’s crucial that Trump supporters are informed and made aware that the NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION narrative they’ve been fed is not actually what Mueller’s report says.
Are informed. That is to laugh. They voted for him. I don’t think any Trump supporter is going to walk that back.
The key stat in your graph isn’t the timeline of the poll for impeachment; it’s the timeline of the poll for Nixon’s approval ratings. You’re not going to impeach Trump successfully until people start really hating the mother fucker – and I mean more than just the progressive base.
Why did people really start hating Nixon in 1973 (yes, Nixon’s popularity started its massive decline in 1973, not 1974)? Because Nixon started publicly behaving as though he was above the law, firing Archibald Cox and refusing to cooperate with the investigation. Trump has done this, but this hasn’t moved the needle in terms of impeachment.
Something else that hurt Nixon’s poll numbers in 1973? The economy started unraveling. And I predict that when that happens, just like they did with Nixon, they will really start hating the mother fucker. And they won’t give a fuck how Fox News spins it. Some people might - about 35-40% will oppose impeachment no matter what. Wait until the “impeach” (for) polls and/or Trump’s disapproval ratings cross 60%. Once that happens? Game over.
There are 3 types of people who voted for Trump:
-
Full-on MAGA warriors
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People who didn’t like Trump but still consider themselves Republicans
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Independent crossover voters, who sometimes vote dem and sometimes vote GOP
Some type 2 voters might not support impeachment but they might not necessarily oppose it either. The third type of Trump voter just might turn on Trump - some already have.
Guess what the current opinion poll for Trump’s impeachment is? 37% - the same as it was when the Nixon impeachment inquiry commenced.
I think impeachment is a near certainty to happen, so it’s just a matter of timing. I can see why it might be prudent to wait a bit longer, since the courts are currently upholding the House’s side in court cases. So it’s not clear that the additional legal powers available through impeachment inquiry would provide any benefits right now. It would also allow time for the case to be built, and as time passes the White House is adding new substance to the case for impeachment. For example, in the last day or so, the White House refused a judge’s order for evidence in the Flynn case, which is not normal. There are some upcoming court cases, over the tax returns and other financial documents, so it might be worth waiting until after that.
True, but his approval poll is still in the low to mid-40s, which isn’t great but it’s higher than Nixon’s was when impeachment began in earnest.
What do you think of this video? Why All the Arguments Against Impeachment Are B.S.