The Newsroom is coming back (for more punishment?)

[commasense]

@Misnomer

So, no one else is sad that they changed the theme music?

On the contrary, I wish they had changed it more. This one’s a different arrangement of the same theme, and as such it’s something of an improvement, because I HATED the original theme. It was a tuneless, meandering mess. This version is slightly less insipid, but it’s still pretty awful. Almost as bad as the Mad Men theme. I hit mute or FF on the DVR whenever they come on.

[Maserschmidt]

Once you accept that it’s going to sound like Aaron Sorkin, it’s quite enjoyable. I liked the first episode.

[pancakes3]

@Maserschmidt

Once you accept that it’s going to sound like Aaron Sorkin, it’s quite enjoyable. I liked the first episode.

Did you enjoy the occupy wall street part, and the cryptic “set up for later episodes” scenes with the lawyer?

Those were the parts that I actively disliked.

[Maserschmidt]

@pancakes3

Did you enjoy the occupy wall street part, and the cryptic “set up for later episodes” scenes with the lawyer?

Those were the parts that I actively disliked.

Yes. Yes I did.

[ThelmaLou]

1. I don’t like any of the characters. I don’t care about what they care about. Even the hairstyles and clothes aren’t good. And yet
2. I will keep watching the show. At least until* Mad Men* or Downton Abbey comes back to Sunday night.
3. I did like Will’s speech at the police station.
4. Maggie is a freaking idiot, and
5. I enjoyed Lisa reaming her out.
6. Willie Nelson does sing that song better than anyone.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Maserschmidt

Once you accept that it’s going to sound like Aaron Sorkin, it’s quite enjoyable. I liked the first episode.

I’ve said it before: I want to live in Aaron Sorkin’s universe. I enjoy this show a lot. It’s no West Wing, but it gives me my Aaron Sorkin’s idealism fix.

[Joey_P]

I have to wonder what the point was of the gym. I’m sure the show spent a not insignificant chunk of change setting that up. Well, at least 10 or 20 thousand and it’s probably a bit of a pain for the camera operators to dodge the equipment. I wonder if in each show one of the characters will have some reason to be up there ‘blowing off some steam’ or ‘taking a shower’ because they came in early or stayed late or slept with a coworker (they did make a point of not only mentioning the showers but showing Maggie with wet hair to really made sure we knew they had them).
If they just needed the gym so she could take a shower after sleeping there, they could have just said she took a shower, but they sent Mac up there too. Unless they rented out a workout place for the day, I assume they’re going to try to get some miles out of it. I already know the show has 3 or 4 minutes left when Will and Mac are talking at the bar, I hope the gym isn’t that predicable as well.

[Little_Nemo]

@Joey_P

I have to wonder what the point was of the gym. I’m sure the show spent a not insignificant chunk of change setting that up. Well, at least 10 or 20 thousand and it’s probably a bit of a pain for the camera operators to dodge the equipment.

That seems to be a Sorkin motif. He likes really big sets. The West Wing set was almost as large as the actual West Wing. The set for Studio 60 was a life-sized theater.

[Joey_P]

@Little_Nemo

That seems to be a Sorkin motif. He likes really big sets. The West Wing set was almost as large as the actual West Wing. The set for Studio 60 was a life-sized theater.

Throughout the run of this show people have made endless comments about Sorkin. Both because in praise of him and how he does things and, well, the polar opposite of it. Personally, I’ve never seen anything he’s done so I don’t have anything to compare it too. All I hear is “Oh, well, all the women are just helpless characters in need of a man, how Sorkinesque” or “Two of the leads are talking over each other at increasingly higher volumes…yawn” etc. I don’t think I’ve read a single Newsroom thread without someone mentioning his name and and comparing something in this show to something else he’s done…and usually saying that they don’t like it. But like I said, it’s all new to me.

I get that when I ask a question like “Is there a reason for the gym?” The answer might honestly be “Because Sorkin likes big sets” and nothing more then that and I’m not taking this out on you, but I wonder if it’s possible to have a whole thread about The Newsroom without hearing Sorkin this and Sorkin that. Maybe the people that are complaining about the show will enjoy it more if they stop trying to compare it to the West Wing and stop thinking “Oh, well of course Aaron Sorkin would have that character do something like that…”

[Lamar_Mundane]

@Joey_P

Throughout the run of this show people have made endless comments about Sorkin. Both because in praise of him and how he does things and, well, the polar opposite of it. Personally, I’ve never seen anything he’s done so I don’t have anything to compare it too. All I hear is “Oh, well, all the women are just helpless characters in need of a man, how Sorkinesque” or “Two of the leads are talking over each other at increasingly higher volumes…yawn” etc. I don’t think I’ve read a single Newsroom thread without someone mentioning his name and and comparing something in this show to something else he’s done…and usually saying that they don’t like it. But like I said, it’s all new to me.

I get that when I ask a question like “Is there a reason for the gym?” The answer might honestly be “Because Sorkin likes big sets” and nothing more then that and I’m not taking this out on you, but I wonder if it’s possible to have a whole thread about The Newsroom without hearing Sorkin this and Sorkin that. Maybe the people that are complaining about the show will enjoy it more if they stop trying to compare it to the West Wing and stop thinking “Oh, well of course Aaron Sorkin would have that character do something like that…”

No, that’ll never happen because people need a place to get their hipster cool on. “People like Aaron Sorkin? Then I need to hate him. I will watch every episode three times so I can find some very specific things to post about on the SDMB. If you want to watch some cool TV, you should come over to my place and we can drink some PBR’s and watch my collection of 1970’s Peruvian cable access shows.”

Cool hat, brah.

It’s happening in the “Under the dome” thread as well, because Stephen King.

[Age_Quod_Agis]

@Joey_P

I have to wonder what the point was of the gym.

Maybe I’m being cynical, but my first thought was that it allows the show to place its women in skimpy workout outfits.

If I’m being a bit more sensitive to women’s issues, I might suspect that it’s an attempt to show that these female characters may work 18 hour days, but they don’t look this skinny and beautiful naturally. They have to work at it.

And I realize you hate the idea of mentioning Sorkin in every post, but … well, this is a Sorkin show. He has a very distinct voice. And one of the things Sorkin is known for is having his characters do the “walk and talk.” They have discussions while walking down a hall, because they’re busy and need to do more than one thing at a time. So maybe the gym is just another type of that affectation. It’s showing that the characters are working even when they’re exercising. There is no down time for these people. They’re always working.

My 2nd thought relates to something that was hinted at during the first episode. [WILD GUESS AT A POSSIBLE SPOILER AHEAD! IF YOU DON’T WANT TO SEE MY GUESS WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN LATER IN THE SEASON, SKIP DOWN ONE PARAGRAPH!] The first episode hinted that something terrible is going to happen to Maggie in Africa. I think that’s going to be the Lara Logan rape. In other words, I think Maggie is going to suffer some traumatic rape type tragedy while in Africa, and possibly involve the death of another character. So she’s probably going to have some form of PTSD when she gets back. One of the ways some people deal with stresses like that – and in fact, one of the ways Hemingway had his characters deal with PTSD-like disorders – was a sort of manic obsession with distracting themselves. Hemingway’s characters would go fishing, obsessing over the details of tying fishing flies and casting their lines and stuff. I think it’s possible Maggie’s going to come back and start spending a lot of time in the gym to distract herself from what happened in Africa. So they started working the gym in earlier in the season so: a) it won’t be a shock to viewers when the characters start going to the gym later on, and b) to justify the production cost of building a gym by using it in other scenes. [END POSSIBLE SPOILERS]

But yeah, it’s probably just an excuse to get the women sweaty and wearing skimpy clothes. Not that I’m complaining.

[Age_Quod_Agis]

@pancakes3

Really? I wonder what criticisms he’s referring to? To me, half of the criticisms relate one way or another to it being Aaron Sorkin-y, and the rest is the time-delay issue of the news. What else is there?

One of the more frequent criticisms I saw related to the show’s politics. The first season was less about the character conflicts, and more about allowing Sorkin to beat up political strawmen.

For example, here’s Time magazine:

• It’s Intellectually Self-Serving. One of the principles that Mac sets for Will’s new newscast is that it will always try to present the best version of a party’s argument, not the most provocative or caricatured one for ratings. The Newsroom does not follow its own advice. News executives are calculating, greedy boors; when Will steps on the wrong powerful toes, the head of Will’s ACN network, Leona Lansing (Jane Fonda) schemes agains him like a soap-opera villainness. Journalists who don’t share News Night’s ideals are dimwits. And Republican conservatives are either Tea Party extremist idiots, or exist only to complain that their party has been taken over by Tea Party extremist idiots. Will says repeatedly that he’s a “registered Republican,” but except for his quick, half-hearted support of tough immigration policy, he registers only distaste for the Tea Party. His politics are a dodge: “It’s true that the Republicans have been taken over by radical nutjobs! Even the fictional moderate Republican who I made up thinks so!”

Here’s the Wall Street Journal:

Still, it’s clear that Mr. Sorkin’s main interest in “The Newsroom” runs to concerns other than characters and storytelling. There’s anchor Will—who is, we’re assured, a Republican—going on camera in episode three to blast away at certain social and political forces that constitute grave dangers to the nation. (In Will’s world, no danger ever emanates from the political left—it just doesn’t happen.)

The LA Times:

For the first hour, the show seems promising, especially for Sorkin fans. After that, things go into a baffling free-fall in which plot exists almost solely to support the political and cultural points Sorkin wants to make, often in non sequitur monologues.

Here’s the Miami Herald:

[Mac talked about speaking “truth to stupid”] By which she means Republicans and conservatives. The Newsroom is an ideological onslaught of biblical proportions, a ceaseless rant against Sarah Palin, Rand Paul, the Koch brothers, Allen West, Fox News, Michelle Bachmann and anyone or anything else to the right of political center.

The Newsroom is often so frenzied that it actually begins to resemble a paranoid, right-wing vision of the news media. Newscast planning meetings resemble Democratic Party war rooms, where staffers madly compete with ideas about how to lampoon Republicans. On one newscast, McAvoy compares the tea party to the bloodthirsty plant from The Little Shop of Horrors and says he won’t stop attacking it “until it goes back to its planet.”

Leading off another meeting, he announces that his show will no longer pursue either fairness or balance, but will simply present what it determines to be the objective truth about, well, everything. “Who are we to make these decisions?” he says, fixing viewers with a stern gaze. “We’re the media elite.” Glenn Beck’s wettest dream can’t compete with stuff like that.

And here’s actual tv reporter Jake Tapper in The New Republic:

McAvoy sanctimoniously laments the deterioration of public discourse and the news media’s complicity in it. But if that is the problem, his subsequent actions reveal a commitment to a uniformly partisan solution. McAvoy—and, by extension, Sorkin—preach political selflessness, but they practice pure partisanship; they extol the Fourth Estate’s democratic duty, but they believe that responsibility consists mostly of criticizing Republicans. This is done through the oldest trick in the book for a Hollywood liberal: by having McAvoy be a “sane Republican” who looks at his party with sadness and anger.

…

McAvoy instead devotes at least a week of his broadcast to showcasing what a horribly inept and dangerous bunch Tea Party Republicans are as they—gasp!—defeat establishment Republicans in free and fair primaries and elections. It’s all well and good to follow the Koch brothers’ money, but at a time when Democrats controlled the White House and both houses of Congress, it’s telling that McAvoy and Sorkin aim their sights at conservatives seeking power—not moderates and liberals wielding it.

…

It’s telling that one of the ways that Sorkin prepared himself for “The Newsroom” was by embedding himself with Keith Olbermann’s (since-canceled) “Countdown” on MSNBC. McAvoy shares many weaknesses of other cable news stars—most notably, a blindness to his own ideology. This is the disconnect that allows them to proclaim a commitment to Truth and Beauty right before launching a ten-minute broadside against an opponent’s petty foibles or to make a plea for civility right before releasing a sneering explosion of disdain. For members of the media who watch the show, McAvoy will be entirely recognizable, if not for his idealistic naïveté, then for his childish egoism.

There are many, many more reviews that touch on this point.

I love me some Sorkin writing, but I admit I haven’t rolled my eyes at the tv this often in a long, long time. Everyone in the news room detests the fact that they have to cover Anthony Weiner’s twitter affair, because who cares about non-stories like that? But just minutes later, no one bats an eye when Jim suggests that they should ask Newt Gingrich whether he’s a liar because he’s no longer married to his former wives.

The show even managed to trot out arguments against Michelle Bachmann that were so vapid they could have come from Bachmann herself. And any show that makes me want to defend Michelle fucking Bachmann deserves some eye rolls.

The good news is that – in my opinion – the 2nd season has been better. It’s been more of a drama than an editorial. And we at least get to hear some arguments from the other side, which makes for a smarter, more nuanced show. (A report about changes to the 2nd season mentioned that Sorkin put journalists and pundits on the payroll for advice, and that seems to be helping.) So I’m hopeful.

[tim-n-va]

@Age_Quod_Agis

Maybe I’m being cynical, but my first thought was that it allows the show to place its women in skimpy workout outfits.

Why was there no dialog while Mack was working out.

[WordMan]

@Age_Quod_Agis

Maybe I’m being cynical, but my first thought was that it allows the show to place its women in skimpy workout outfits.

If I’m being a bit more sensitive to women’s issues, I might suspect that it’s an attempt to show that these female characters may work 18 hour days, but they don’t look this skinny and beautiful naturally. They have to work at it.

And I realize you hate the idea of mentioning Sorkin in every post, but … well, this is a Sorkin show. He has a very distinct voice. And one of the things Sorkin is known for is having his characters do the “walk and talk.” They have discussions while walking down a hall, because they’re busy and need to do more than one thing at a time. So maybe the gym is just another type of that affectation. It’s showing that the characters are working even when they’re exercising. There is no down time for these people. They’re always working.

My 2nd thought relates to something that was hinted at during the first episode. [WILD GUESS AT A POSSIBLE SPOILER AHEAD! IF YOU DON’T WANT TO SEE MY GUESS WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN LATER IN THE SEASON, SKIP DOWN ONE PARAGRAPH!] The first episode hinted that something terrible is going to happen to Maggie in Africa. I think that’s going to be the Lara Logan rape. In other words, I think Maggie is going to suffer some traumatic rape type tragedy while in Africa, and possibly involve the death of another character. So she’s probably going to have some form of PTSD when she gets back. One of the ways some people deal with stresses like that – and in fact, one of the ways Hemingway had his characters deal with PTSD-like disorders – was a sort of manic obsession with distracting themselves. Hemingway’s characters would go fishing, obsessing over the details of tying fishing flies and casting their lines and stuff. I think it’s possible Maggie’s going to come back and start spending a lot of time in the gym to distract herself from what happened in Africa. So they started working the gym in earlier in the season so: a) it won’t be a shock to viewers when the characters start going to the gym later on, and b) to justify the production cost of building a gym by using it in other scenes. [END POSSIBLE SPOILERS]

But yeah, it’s probably just an excuse to get the women sweaty and wearing skimpy clothes. Not that I’m complaining.

A very reasonable conjecture - especially given how Maggie/Allison Pill looked at the beginning of the season, with her little-boy burnt hair and shattered look.

The show has had a few moments, but still hasn’t found its groove by any stretch. I will be interested to see how the full-season arc around the potential Watergate-level scandal will go. Since we haven’t quite bonded with the cast and taken on their sense of mission and righteousness, having them look into what might be heinous acts on the part of the US Govt doesn’t quite feel clear-cut - especially because we are shown up front that it doesn’t go well. How are we supposed to end up rooting for these guys?

[AlsoNamedBort]

@Age_Quod_Agis

I think that’s going to be the Lara Logan rape. In other words, I think Maggie is going to suffer some traumatic rape type tragedy while in Africa, and possibly involve the death of another character.

I’m already writing off the guy that she’s going with. I don’t think he’s making it back.

[Snickers]

Well, he is one of the show’s two black characters, so he’s got redshirt written all over him. Poor bastard.

[pancakes3]

I don’t like the separation of storylines this season. I prefer the cohesive cog-in-a-machine style of last season but I guess this format allows for better character development. Also, it looks like all of the female characters have given up all rights to their likability.

[WordMan]

@AlsoNamedBort

I’m already writing off the guy that she’s going with. I don’t think he’s making it back.

Yeah - seems like a decent character, but seems to have Red Shirt written all over him.

As for the female characters - I don’t know if I just think Allison Pill was miscast, or she’s been given too much silly dialogue to deal with. I’m inclined to think I would just prefer someone else in the role.

As for Mack - was it clear why she dumped a drink into Will’s lap? I didn’t follow. And either way, Will not reacting much to it besides “use your words” rings false. I would’ve been very angry unless I really thought I deserved it.

[pancakes3]

I think Pill’s off-putting (probably endearing to some) babyface is more prominent than usual because she’s been in some chest-accentuating outfits thus far. If she goes back to her blouse and pencil skirt, it’ll be more true to her established character. The baby t’s just make her more of a butterface than she really is. I suppose the same would apply to Mack. There was a scene last night where she was running over to a newsdesk where it was apparent that she wasn’t wearing a bra - something that I wouldn’t even think to notice in previous episodes.

Olivia Munn though… please, thank you, and may I have some more?

[MaxTheVool]

I think that at least one thing is definitely improved over last year… when Will and the other guy were having the debate about the guy who might be executed, I really felt like both sides of the argument had reasonable positions put forward. Last season the liberal side was always articulate and elegant and the conservative side was a bunch of ridiculous strawmen.

That’s definitely a change for the positive if it holds up.