Well, I gotta tell ya, the signposts are all very, very bad, Aeschines. From the CIA purge to the DeLay rule change to the recent fiasco over authorizing committee chairs (or their “designees”) to look at individual IRS returns, every indication is that Bush will suck even WORSE over the next four years.
The bad guys have WON. It would be dumb not to assume there will be negative consequences for the forces of light and goodness, and humanity in general.
**Aeschines ** thank you for this perspective! There was a time post- Nov. 2, where I felt like I would never be able to shake myself out of a deep depression and creeping horror at what the U.S. has become. You know what? Yes, the U.S. is still a scary place for me, my friends and family but we can counteract the scariness! Find a cause, volunteer your time, or donate money for something you believe in. I suggest trying to work local because federal change requires more than millions of voters, it requires millions of bucks.
Just a little personal ancecdote. Two weeks ago, I chose to work towards a stem cell research bill in MA. I reached out to sympathetic people at work and in school. We’ve received several responses from the Senate and the Boston Globe ran an article on stem cell research last week. This bill has a reasonable chance of passing and just getting involved has made myself and dozens of others feel a lot better!
I never wish for a politician to mishandle their office, and Bush handled his office extremely well from 2000-2004. Obviously we disagree on that, by we I mean myself and roughly 85% of this forum, but disagreements are normal.
I must admit there is always a certain smug satisfaction when you can go “I told you so” but in politics it’s difficult because clear cut victories and losses are extremely difficult to find.
I mean, Nixon was a clear cut example of a politician completely messing up, and Republicans of the time really couldn’t offer any adequate defense.
But say, Bush’s invasion of Iraq isn’t that clear. Many people felt it necessary and righteous and still consider it the correct path, many don’t. Those who think it was not necessary tend to regard it as a colossal failure and those who think it was necessary tend to think of it as an appropriate and successful military venture.
It’s all about perspective when trying to determine if a politician did “good” or “bad.”
There’s not many objective measures for success because everyone looks at government differently. To a hard-line socialist just about any U.S. President is abominable, to a free market capitalist, well, you can find more successes.
But as it were I offer the advice that you put things in perspective and think more about government. In case you did not know, the huge weight of government decisions that will affect your everyday life happen in your municipal, county, and state government. That’s why it’s very sad that turnout for local elections is extremely low in most places. The Presidential race and the congressional races get huge amounts of attention because these are powerful political figures with a lot of money, and the national media also finds them a lot more interesting than local politicians (and so does the local media, for that matter.) But when it comes right down to it our government still structures things such that most of the time the important government matters that affect your day to day life are decided locally.
That is why it’s somewhat sad to me when I see people lamenting the election of X President while they probably couldn’t even name their local State Senator or State House member. And probably also do not know the policies of the local county commissioner.
While it’s good to do positive things locally, it won’t change the way the nation goes. Frex, a 1930s liberal German could do nice things locally, but it wouldn’t have kept Hitler from invading Poland, just as no amount of local activism in 2001-4 could have kept Bush from invading Iraq. And won’t keep him from whatever Godawful mistakes he’s got planned for the next four years. Best thing to do is, work to wrest control of one or both houses of Congress from PUbbie control in 2006. That would at least provide some kind of brake on Pubbie evil. That’s two years of useful work, easily. Contact your local Dem party and see what you can do. No reason you can’t do both.
And hang in there. The bad guys win sometime in real life – and the good guys keep on keepin’ on.
No, the worst thing that could happen is for Republican control to be wrested away ;).
Sometimes from the way you guys talk on this forum I think you forget that everyone can have different viewpoints.
Well I personally am not frightened about what America has become. After four years of Dubya we are all still free to read, watch, listen to, eat, wear, drive, and buy. We can choose what work we do, what religion, if any, we follow, and all other important decisions. Americans can decide the course of their own lives without fear of punishment. And all of this will still be true after four more years of Dubya. Yes, he did run an ugly, nasty, dumbed-down campaign, and but that doesn’t harm the quality of our lives.
Look. Wishing that the Iraq situation will blow up even further or that the economy will tank so that we can run an anti-Bush campaign in 2008 is stupid and counterproductive. Kerry was trying to run a positive campaign and up to the start of August, but he was always undercut by the fact that commentators, columnists, bloggers, and yes, even message board posters on his side fought for votes mainly by trashing Bush. If we want to win in 2008, we’d better start thinking about what we can offer people that the Republicans can’t offer.
Oh, the last election was an eye-opener wrt differing viewpoints. But I make a distinction between the Republican Party leadership, whome I believe to be genuinely evil human beings who hold common humanity in contempt, and the common humans who vote for them. I think Karl Rove, Richard Perele and Dick Cheney belong in a jail cell. The jury is still out on Bush himself – I don’t know if he’s an idiot sockpuppet or an evil idiot sockpuppet. But his suppoerters are safe from me. I’m sure some are evil, but most are just gullible and/or deluded.
Peace and prosperity? I thought that’s what we were offering that Bush can’t deliver on. Maybe I missed something.
I remember the end of Iran-Contra investigation. As they closed the case in the Congress, making sure that the real shit does not hit the fan, the Senators and Congress guys concluded " See what a wonderful system we have – We can actually make such an investigation". And that was the end. Closing the case and self-congradulating themselves.
And here we go again… Let’s celebrate going ahead. Let’s be positive as we walk on a pile of shit.
Tell that to the homosexuals who want to have the same rights given to married couples.
Indeed, the Bush victory in the face of the last four years demonstrates that the capacity for self-delusion of the slight majority of American voters is considerable, and exceeded only by the rise in national idiocy such as “moral values” (read: intolerance).
It would be very nice if in the next four years someone at the top were actually held accountable for the economic, diplomatic and international problems being caused by the (potentially evil) idiot sockpuppet and his (without a doubt) evil puppetmasters.
But no, let’s instead blame the CIA for faulty intelligence that the CIA had even provided warnings about, let’s replace the dissenters displaying even a shred of integrity, and let’s keep staying the course as the wagon keeps rolling down the cactus escarpment.
I don’t childishly hope Bush will screw up further – I don’t need to, since it is extremely likely that he will anyway – but I do hope that these bastards will one day be held responsible for screwing with Americans, America, and substantial chunks of the planet. If you’re actually looking forward to good thins happening, I have the distinct feeling you will be disappointed, unless of course you’re in the habit of thumping a Bible and drawing conclusions based on knee-jers as opposed to facts.
I’m glad you’re well adjusted and able to function properly in a Republican Democracy.
No, it’s necessary.
There is that facet of politics, however, in which every action that the president takes is seen as another opportunity to score points for one’s side. “Bush just purged the CIA; that goes in the negative tally. Bush just wrestled with a Chilean bodyguard: ‘embarrassing.’ Bush just–oh wait, we kindof support that; forget that. Bush just…”
In other words, there can be a monist approach to Bush et al. in which the sole mode of engagement is to find fault in preparation for the next election, midterm or general. Whereas the thing that is really needed is to be bigger than Bush and his successor: have a plan (not a Kerry “plan”) and a message so big, so appealing, and so obvious that it makes the GOP seem small. Currently, we seem like a little kid throwing pebbles at a man, since we are full of complaints but without an appealing solution package.
There’s no question that they going to do their best to fortify the position. If we do get an improvement in the economy over the next two years, you could see even bigger gains in the house in '06. The Pubs are doing well right now; if they play their hand right, the worst is behind them. The status quo obviously didn’t hurt them too much, and any improvements are just gravy. And they are energized, too: right now they have a lot, but they have the hunger to take it all.
The thing is, you can try to compete with Maxwell House by beefing up the ad campaign for Folgers, but what you really need to do is create Starbucks. It seems to me, a socialist, that all the Democrats can offer is to be a little nicer; they are Folgers. What I want to see is real, FDR-change: improving services (health care) and policy (energy) while getting rid of all the inefficiency and BS in government. I want a sense of progress. Al Gore gave us a very lite version of this with his “reinventing government.” Kerry gave us jack.
So much more important than opposition at this point is plain ol’ position. Any infant can, “Nya nya, I don’t like that!” Bitching about Bush all the time just makes him “Daddy.” It’s time to grow up.
I said “substantial margin”; and yes, in the aggregate, people wanted Bush. He won the popular vote by millions of votes. Your VAP comments don’t really mean very much, since, if an election is somewhat close, even a small percentate of the VAP not voting would mean that neither candidate earned a majority. Put differently, only in a landslide would a candidate expect to earn a majority.
This isn’t what I’ve heard, which has been that the Pubs got out the vote just as well as the Dems. Does a shift away from liberalism really account for the defeat? One could easily argue the opposite, as Clinton was a fairly conservative guy himself.
I don’t advocate cheering him and his policies on. I recommend hoping for better from him while doing our best to make him less relevent through our own actions.
Actually, I see the world getting a little calmer and saner over the next four years, even with Bush’s current policies in place. I think what people forget is that, although it was quite poorly planned (and entirely unjustified), the war in Iraq has gone fairly well in terms of loss of American life. It’s not going to get worse.
Good! You’re trying to understand the electorate, and it’s looks like you’re succeeding.
The question is: What are we going to do about it? We can scowl at such people all we want, but they’ll still get one vote apiece.
But here you mischaracterize it: it’s not a stupor; rather it’s a great flow of energy toward a cause.
Let’s face a fact: at the national level the Dems put their chips on ardently pro-choice and secular politics. The only democrats to win since 1964 have been those who could present a nice Christian surface, one sincerely and one not.
The desire for a great cause, something meaningful, lies deep in the human psyche and isn’t going away. The Dems have proven themselves supremely successful at ignoring this aspect of human nature, and they have paid for it. The Pubs tap into it. Guess who wins?
In what sense of benefit? Remember that the train never arrives at the station; it just keeps going.
Gee, as a constructive and peaceful person, I had no idea I was formed by such awful events !!
Yup the next four years are gonna be great.
But perhaps not in the way you intended that: as gold indicates, the world has little faith in Bush. Notice that there was a pronounced dip in the price on Nov 2, when the exit polls were indicating a likely Kerry win, and that it’s been pretty much straight up since then, busting through a price level that had twice been tested before.
Pretty compelling evidence that people are betting with actual dollars that this man is going to be less-than-good for the US. That’s a bet based on experience.
I’d like for the next four years to be great, but I’m putting my money, at least for the time being, on a different outcome. As are a lot of other people.
It’s like Abe said: you don’t have to hope for him to screw up. More of the same, and there’s no reason to think the next four years won’t be more of the same, will do just fine.
Riiiiiiiiiiight. Tell that to Howard Stern fans. Tell that to vets who wanted to watch Saving Private Ryan on November 11. Tell that to HBO programmers after Michael Powel’s comment about wanting the FCC to have control over cable and satellite systems. Tell that to Dixie Chick fans about a year ago.
I don’t think Bush has much faith in the rest of the world. Look at the way America gets screwed over by the UN. Look at the corruption outside the US - the EU, the UN etc
As an addendum this article speaks volumes.