The Nintendo Wii is the Celine Dion of this generation of consoles.

The Game Room
1

By which I mean that it might sell a million bazillion copies, but as a critical effort it’s a big, steaming turd.

Full disclosure - I own every system currently on the market, including the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP handhelds. I’ve been a lifelong gamer and devote a lot of time and mental energy to games, far beyond the average nerd or casual fratboy gamer archetypes out there. I don’t do “console wars” and I’m not a fanboy of any corporation that exists solely to take my money, which includes Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and all of their publishers. I think that fanboyism is embarrassing, unthinking, and lame on all levels, and is hostile to legitimate critical discourse.

That aside; the Wii is, thus far, a failure as a gaming platform. Its own first party titles have not innovated in any way and have not taken advantage of the unique interface that should be the driving force behind the system. The vast majority of its “killer apps” are either predominantly leftover code from its previous system (Zelda, which actually had a joint release on both systems!, and Mario Galaxy, which is merely the bonus levels from Mario Sunshine turned into their own game, regardless of how great and fun it is, Smash Brothers, which is indistinguishable from its gamecube predecessor on any level, including controls) or are built around pure controller gimmick rather than innovation (Mario Kart, in which you…wait for it…snap the controller into a chintzy plastic wheel and then proceed to ignore all motion sensing and 3D space abilities). And that’s the first party games, which for Nintendo have always been the best!

Third-party games have been downright shameful and embarrassing. Remember when Nintendo wouldn’t endorse Tengen games back in the eighties? Oh, how times have changed - it seems that any upstart with some knockoff flash code can now sell a licensed third-party wii game. There are apparently hundreds of games out there that are little more than flash apps packaged on a disc…and that’s before we get into the sub-Korean bootleg-quality knockoffs like Lifesigns Surgical Unit, which is actually a knockoff and clone of Trauma Center! [I know that’s a DS game I linked to, but it drives the point home - Nintendo is allowing these “bootlegs” on all of their platforms. Seen the latest Nintendogz game lately? Oh, how the mighty have fallen! And let’s not even talk about the glut of PS2 ports - it’s like every new PS2 game is getting a joint Wii release! Embarrassing! If the first party won’t innovate, how can you blame the third party developers - there are now games out there that don’t use the Wii’s motion control or spatial elements in ANY way! Hello, Gamecube 2.0! But who can blame them when the system’s killer app, the recycled/re-released Smash Brothers, supports just plugging in a Gamecube controller and ignoring the fact that you’re even using a Wii!

Online play is a disaster. Few games support it, and the ones that do require nested game-specific friend codes within friend codes, each of which are about 20 random characters long. I still can’t play Smash Brothers against my little cousins out west, because somewhere between us there are about 80 random characters in these friend codes and one of them is wrong somewhere. I’m pretty sure it’s not on my end, but I won’t hold my breath until one of the 12-year-olds on their end figures out that he typed in an O instead of a 0!

The promised DS connectivity has not materialized in any way at all. Nintendo has two great, potentially innovative platforms on their hands and chooses to link them in absolutely no way for maximum bland, safe anti-innovation.

The Virtual Console is a joke. The pricing scheme is all wrong, there are very few desirable games, a whole lot of first-generation 1985 4-bit’esque NES first-party titles like Baseball, Tennis, and Action Game for an astonishing $5 each. Almost every classic and desirable game from those eras is absent.

And there is absolutely nothing on the horizon for the system. Lazy and complacent, Nintendo does not seem to care about actually making a great platform and innovating, because they can’t stop selling systems. Why make great games and why innovate when re-releasing games like Smash Brothers, Mario Sunshine, and Mario Kart will sell like crazy? And that brings us back to Celine Dion - a million trillion people will sell out every night of her Vegas show and buy a hundred dillion copies of Let’s talk about love, but that doesn’t mean that on an artistic and critical level it isn’t a giant piece of crap.

2

I’ll take “New Poster Gets His Virtual Ass Reamed” for $200, Alex.

In all seriousness, you do have some valid points. I admit that I do like the Wii, but it seems that more and more often, I blow it off when given the chance to play something else. (We’ve got nearly every system ever put out, and I usually opt for PSX these days.) That said, I fully expect the Wii fanboys to jump in here and raise some hell, ust because the sales numbers are so high. (And their point is just as valid: the Wii is making Nintendo a crapton of money.)

But yeah, I agree with everything you just said. Don’t let the dissenters scare you off. :slight_smile:

3

Well, there’s no argument that the Wii is a massive commercial success - hence the Celine Dion comparison. But anyone will agree that massive commercial success often does not equal “good” or “critical success.” The commercial success of the Wii is what alarms me the most - it rewards Nintendo’s lazy and detached approach instead of pushing them to innovate or continue to stay one step ahead. When they intentionally chose to go in a different direction with the Wii - sacrificing graphics and horsepower to instead innovate with how we play and interact with the software using our physicality - they made a brave step in the right direction, defining their own market. But they’ve gotten lazy and off track - while “Mario Galaxy” has been the best (only good?) game for the system to date, it could have just as easily been played with a classic controller. INNOVATE, Nintendo! Make the Wii equivalent of Zelda: the Phantom Hourglass, the type of game that should be the hallmark for all DS games (and it only took them, what, four years into that system’s life to get there?)

4

I’ll say this much. On paper, I absolutely agree with you. But here’s what the problem is – the Wii is fun, and broadly accessible.

Too many game developers have forgotten that games are supposed to be fun. I have stopped caring if games are visually stunning, because amazing graphics has typically been done at the expense of good gameplay. I don’t want ultra-realistic blood and bile spurts. I don’t need perfect ragdoll physics for plummeting corpses. I want fun. The Wii is fun.

Do I wish there were more good third party games? Yes.

Should Nintendo crack down on shitty ports that give the console a bad name? Absolutely.

Does it peeve me off uncontrollably that the Wii version of Rock Band is basically a port of the PS2 version? Oh mais oui.

But everyone and his dog wants a Wii and has for years. Not just gamers, mind you, but everybody else. Anyone from a five year old kid to an eighty year old can enjoy the Wii. The PS2 and the XBox 360 absolutely cannot say the same. There are plenty of people out there who want to play games but don’t want to play first person shooters or sports games, and are being underserved by the other consoles. Hell, I’m a gamer (PC mostly anymore) and I feel underserved by the other consoles. I don’t care about World War II, bloody gorefests or playing online with howling frat boys. On a console, I want quirky, interesting games, or games that I can play with friends and family. What do you get for that? A Wii.

The past landmarks of winning consoles don’t apply to the Wii. No other game console has been sold to such a huge degree for demo minigames and nothing else. You can call the Wii a gimmick, but it’s no Power Glove - it’s functional, amusing, and makes the system popular among non-gamers to an unprecedented degree.

Hell, even when trying I still can’t come up with a lot of good reasons to buy a PS2 or XBox 360 – at least not enough to justify the price. But the Wii’s price is right and I’m sticking to the known good quantities. It’s been worth it just for Wii Sports, Mario Galaxy, and Endless Ocean and soon enough I’ll probably add Mario Kart Wii, Super Paper Mario and Wii Fit to the list.

There are admittedly a lot of games that aren’t taking advantage of the Wiimote - Brawl is a good example. But I’m sure these games entered development a long time ago before it was really known if people would “take” to the movement controls. I’m willing to give it time. Brawl is more of the same, but it’s at least an amusing ride. Nintendo does have the horrible sickness of riding their franchises, but they at least are polished games that are fun and usable. Too many game franchises can’t say the same.

5

You’ve no quarrel with me. I’m pretty much with you 100% on everything you’ve said.

And I’ve said it before and I’m sure I’ll say it again. When I put Zelda in, it looked nice, but then after a couple seconds, it just looked okay because it’s compared to the other consoles out there that have so much more power. If the Wii were 100 or even 150 dollars more and had a much stronger processor, I’d have pounced at it sooner.

I really do think that it’s telling when you have a new system that has an exciting, new set of controls, yet people move back to the old ways when they have a choice. Mario Kart Wii is the newest iteration of one of the important franchises that Nintendo has and they made a very good game. They also bobbled a few things in the game, but those are my opinion. That bobbling is nothing compared to the online play. No chat and mind-numbingly stupid to use doesn’t help. Sure, it’s just 12 digits…for the console. Then more digits for each game. That could have flown back in the day, but now when other products do it better, it simply doesn’t fly. Nintendo innovated like hell for the console itself. They just now need to do the same for the games. Add a new game to the pantheon. We’re waiting.

6

All the consoles are fun. They all have video games. Video games are about fun. Yes, the Wii has this amazing appeal, and that’s helped it to push a lot of its consoles.

The consoles have been going through a copycat run of first-person shooters. That run is slowing down a little bit and now we’re seeing more interesting releases, like Civilization on the 360. How well that does will go a long way in showing how viable that game can port over. PlayStation 3 has Metal Gear, which is a great game with a great story and the Final Fantasy series. It also has a BluRay player, which may or may not help justify some of the expense.

I remember, as a kid, wanting one big thing from my video games (aside from occupying my attention) and that was to play them against other people and find out if I could whoop their asses as badly as I thought I could in Mario Kart and Street Fghter 2. Mario Kart is here, even though it’s not the same game, and Street Fighter 2 is coming back on the 360. With the power of the Internet, why wouldn’t a console use it and use it to the best of their ability?

ETA: by choice, this is only something that’s on 360 and PlayStation. Nintendo made the choice to opt out of this. Why? This is what I wanted as a kid. It’s here now.

7

If you grade it on just the graphics, of course it’s going to lose. But the game, taken as a whole beyond the graphics alone, is amazing.

Yeah, the scientific term is inertia. :smiley:

I’ll be the first fanboy in this thread, I guess. But even I’ll admit that I don’t fire up the Wii that much lately. Course, I hardly need to be playing it every day to get my money’s worth out of it; it’s there for me when I want to use it, and I’m happy with that.

8

The girlfriend and I got the Wii roughly a month ago. We’ve played Zelda for a combined total of about 14 or 15 hours, most of that spent trying to fish. I think there was a two and a half week span where we didn’t touch the Wii.

I played my 360 every night.

We got Mario Kart at midnight of the release date. I think we’ve spent 15 hours on it already.

She’s mildly disappointed with Zelda because she says it’s not as good as the 64 version. I’m disappointed because it could be so much more and it’d be better with an Xbox controller.

9

What is as good as the Ocarina of Time? Not too much.

10

Last comment on Zelda and then I’ll drop the semi-hijack. I will admit that my roommate claims the Gamecube version of Twilight Princess is better because of the controller, and she’s likely right, although I had tons of fun with the Wii controls.

I’d really like to see more games that could only be played on the Wii and couldn’t even be translated to other systems. The best games for the system are ones that don’t really use its control capabilities to their fullest (Twilight Princess, Smash Bros, Super Mario Galaxy, etc). Elebits is one such, although unfortunately it wasn’t engaging enough for me.

The DS has more games in its library that are DS-only, like Elite Beat Agents; you couldn’t even play that using a mouse, as it pretty much requires that you be able to tap the screen in rapid succession, and a mouse couldn’t keep up with it. But then again, the DS has been out longer and Nintendo’s handhelds seem to be more popular than their consoles.

11

Just to be clear, I’m not a fanboy. I’ve owned and played primarily Nintendo systems, but last generation I never bought a Gamecube, all I had was a PS2. And while I do own a Wii, I plan on at least buying a PS3 in the near future when I have a job and can afford it.

That being said… cracks knuckles

I think the biggest problem is that people expect every game on the Wii to utilize the motion controls to their fullest. Now, I like the motion controls. I like how it gives variety and opens up possibilities in games like Wii Sports and WarioWare: Smooth Moves. However, I also want to be able to play games that don’t require me to jump around all the time. Just because the waggle is there doesn’t mean that every game has to include it somehow. Yes, the Wii’s motion controls and IR are innovative. But the Wii is not Mt. Everest, I do not want to have to wave my controller around like a madman just because it’s there. For example, I own Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. It is a great strategy RPG that I enjoy playing. It does not use controller waggle or IR-pointing in the slightest, but I still think it’s a great game. If I had to randomly shake my controller to move my characters, I think it would actually take away from the game instead of adding to my enjoyment.

The other problem is this. The Wii (and DS) has, for all intents and purposes, brought back casual gaming. And here’s the thing. Casual gamers aren’t hardcore like you, the OP, or even semi-hardcore (which I consider myself to be). Casual gamers are not going to look up game reviews online to see which games are good and which games are utter turds. Instead, they’re going to see Harry Potter for the Wii and think “I’m going to have so much fun waving my wand around!” Especially since Nintendo has always been family-friendly, so 8 year olds are going to be getting the Wii from their parents, and their parents are going to buy them craptacular games like Carnival Games and Ninjabread Man…and guess what, the 8 year olds aren’t going to care. My 6 year old cousin loves to play Burnout on my PS2. Why? Because he crashes the cars over and over again. Never successfully finishes a race.

And there’s the problem. Third parties can put out shit for the Wii and it won’t matter, because casual gaming has come back hardcore because of the innovation and popularity. And casual gamers will pick up random games that really shouldn’t have been put out in the first place. Now, yeah, Nintendo could bring back their old seal of approval and start whittling out the crappy third-party games. But there’s still going to be crap for all systems no matter if there’s new innovations or updated graphics. The PS3 and 360 have had their share of total crap too.

I don’t know why you think Nintendo rehashing old games from previous systems is such a surprise…that’s their bread and butter. Mario Kart’s been repeating for each system since the SNES. Smash Bros since N64. Nintendo barely introduced any new IP in the Gamecube era. (The only one I can think of is Pikmin, but correct me if I’m wrong.) They tried reinvention with one of their old IPs, the Metroid Prime series. It’s been awesome but has sold horribly, especially the Wii version. Metroid Prime 3 uses the Wii controller’s innovation almost flawlessly…except nobody’s bought it. Why? I can’t explain it.

I won’t deny that Nintendo is far, far behind on online capabilities. Mario Kart Wii has put forth their best effort, but they’re still more concerned with keeping their family-friendly image than actually putting out quality online play mechanics.

Finally, I think that Nintendo’s going to have some tricks up their sleeve. As you’ve said, they’ve released all their BIG IPs already. Zelda, Metroid, Smash, Mario Kart, and mainstay Mario have all had their games already for the Wii. What’s left? Well, I expect an Animal Crossing and maybe a new Pikmin. I’d love to play a new Star Fox with the motion controls, if they get it right and return to Star Fox 64 quality. There’s nothing announced formally, but that’s what E3 is for I’d imagine.

This post is slightly incoherent and disjointed. It was pretty much a stream of consciousness thing. Apologies in advance if it’s confusing.

12

Part of the problem is this image where they “put forth their best effort” for online capability, because if that’s their best, then I really would hate to see the worse ideas they threw out to get there.

Nintendo’s rehashing of their gold mines isn’t surprising, and I expect them to, but I also expect them to come out with their next great series of games. That isn’t happening, which is sad. I think that’s the big problem people have with reference to the preponderance of the old franchises.

13

Yeah, this is what I came here to say. Wii isn’t being marketed to people who can recognize that the quality of gaming in terms of how the gaming industry has progressed isn’t being utilized to the fullest of its capacity. While hardcore gamers might care that the titles are a mere recycling of old concepts, put in a framework of waving a controller around, the people being marketed to really like waving a controller around.

Did anyone else have the friend’s mom back in the day who would sit and try to play SNES Mario Kart and her hands would move whenever she would go around a curve? I did, and I’ll bet she has a Wii now.

14

Geez, as someone who has been gaming since the day when ASCII was popular and the high end graphics power house systems had 16 whole colors available to them (and I’m not talking EGA here) I’m sick of being told that I’m not a real gamer because the only system in the current generation that I have any interest in is the Wii. There is nothing, not a single game so far for the XBox 360 that has made me want to get one. It’s rehash, rehash, rehash of stuff that I was tired of ten years ago (some closer to fifteen years ago). I couldn’t care less about playing with obnoxious 13 year olds; online play holds zero interest for me. And I’m not paying $400+ for what might as well be a new graphics card.

You know what, real “hardcore gamers” don’t care about the platform; they’ll play an Intellivision, GURPS, fantasy sports leagues, chess, or anything else. Real “hardcore gamers” don’t see a distinction between types of games; they know a flash game can be just as engrossing as a $20 million hyped up megatitle. Real “hardcore gamers” just play games. Period.

15

Preach it.

16

You know, I don’t necessarily disagree with most of your points. There are things that do seem “backwards” about the Wii… and maybe it’s troubling that I’ve had as much or more fun replaying Wave Race 64 on the Virtual Console than I have with most of my actual Wii games. Online functionality could be so much more robust and intuitive. DS connectivity has been a bust. And there are precious few games that seem to really take advantage of the motion control capabilities.

But I still love my Wii. I can appreciate that Nintendo decided to deliberately deviate from the usual formula by sacrificing graphical power in favor of accessibility. It was a big gamble, and in the end, it turned out that they were right about what people wanted.

The price differential is a real factor that I think a lot of people don’t give enough credit to. As much as I would love a PS3, even $400 for the most basic SKU is a lot to swallow compared to $250. Then you’re looking at $60 per game, when Wii games routinely run $30-$50. For a price-concious gamer like me, the PlayStation 3 is something I will enjoy at the end of its life, when the console is marked down to $200 and lots of games have entered the Greatest Hits library. The Wii is a console that I can afford to enjoy now, the first time around. That means something to me.

The library is just right for a midcore gamer like me who doesn’t have six hours every night to play videogames. Super Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes will probably keep me occupied until Christmas, when I’ll get around to picking up Mario Kart Wii and Metroid Prime 3. When I only have a few minutes free, I can pick up and play a few races in F-Zero.

So while there’s nothing wrong with you being disappointed in the Wii, and even I as a Wii fan would agree that there is a lot of potential that Nintendo hasn’t tapped yet, there are real gamers who are a perfect fit for the “Wii philosophy,” and we aren’t all soccer moms or gaming neophytes.

(Also, if people are steamed now about how the Wii only attracts newbs and nursing home patients, just wait until Wii Fit hits. Mark my words, it will be huge.)

17

The only current console I have is the Wii, and I agree with a lot of these points. The online system is just odd; it’s one thing for them to be overprotective of kids and so on, but even then things don’t make sense. If there are console friend codes, why do there have to be friend codes for individual games? Really, the online identities should be at the Mii level, rather than the console or game level.

I also agree that Nintendo (and most other developers) ride their franchises a huge amount. But of course they do - they’re popular and well-reviewed, and don’t require the new advertising that a new franchise would. Also, the basic point of a franchise is that its games are popular and good. There’s no point throwing out stuff that’s worked in the past just to be innovative. Ocarina was so great because it translated the style of the old games into a new 3D system. People don’t want these games to be fundamentally different. Everybody freaked out when they showed the style of Wind Waker, and that was really just the look of the game, since the controls and so on were pretty similar.

So I agree that I’d like to see innovation and new properties, but I don’t think that means it’s necessary to go nuts with changes to existing series. I’m glad they didn’t add Wii control nonsense to Smash; I’m glad they allow old-style controls for Kart. I don’t like waggling the remote for slashes in Zelda, although the pointer control works very well. It’s the same for the other consoles too. Everybody’s been waiting for GTA4 and MGS, and what they want is the same games as before, just “awesomer”. :slight_smile:

18

Wow. I guess I’m a little late to this party.

As I’m sure you’ll guess (and I’m sure some people are sick of me doing it), I’m going to defend the Wii. Actually, I’m not, because everyone here has already done a good enough job pointing out how ridiculous the OP is.

Although I will defend the Virtual Console, aside from a few big hits, most of the major NES and SNES titles are already on the VC. Complaining about price is valid I guess, but try finding a working cartridge of any of those games for less than the price on the VC. It won’t be easy.

Finally, I find it hilarious that the Wii is more powerful than the PS2, GC and Xbox and people still feel the need to call it a toy. A few years ago, developers made game for those three systems that blew away anything we had ever seen before. Now that’s not good enough because the PS3 and Xbox 360 can do 1080p? Please. I won’t throw out the “F” word, but oh I’m thinking it.

19

For a console that brings nothing new to the table aside from their intellectual property and a controller, they better emphasize those two. Adding a new character/game to the Mario/Zelda/Donkey Kong pantheon would go a long way to showing that Nintendo is serious. So would a mandatory update that patches over their online play.

20

That’s the thing. A waving of the wiimote won’t make the criticisms go away. They’re all valid. For what it’s worth, all three of the consoles really are just toys.

Perhaps you skipped over the places where people said that they agree with everything that was said, but they still find it fun. The more, the merrier, I say. If the Wii brings all these new people into video games, it can only be a good thing. The thing is that the new people are going to impose their will more on the console they used as an entry point (that being the Wii) than others. All effects, positive and negative, will hit the Wii first because of the influx.

What can Nintendo do next? What can they do to maximize what they have out there now?