OLN also covers the Giro D’Italia.
I am begining to become a real Thomas Voeckler fan. He held the yellow for 10 days last year, the last day or so on sheer guts. Now this year he winds up with the king of the mountain jersey. He will get to keep that only until the hills really start, but in the meantime the fact that he has pokla dot jersey is way way cool.
Overall standing are the same as yesterday, so I’m not going to repost.
Nah, Cippollini was a stud. Compared to Super Mario, Armstrong’s a “dour, overly serious” giant chest cavity with arms and scrawny legs, but Cipo was the stud. And this year, his inheritor is Tom Boonen. If you’re into drooling over male athletes, check out Tom. When it comes to freakish power to weight ratio however, Armstrong’s the man. But if I were gay and was lookin’ to pick me up some pro tour booty? There’s heaps better looking dudes than Lance Armstrong.
Holy Fuck! I can’t believe I just posted that! 
And just to clear something up, I never rode as a pro. I rode in the 84 Olympics and various World Championships as an amateur, and I rode in Europe from 84 thru 89 in various “quasi pro” amateur teams, but I never rode in a Grand Tour.
I know a lot of guys who still do though. First name basis with most of the current Australian crop.
I’m not gay. I was using “stud” the same way I would use it in regard to a badass running back in American football…that is to say, not sexually.
At least not overtly. 
Actually, the mistake I made was in assuming you were female! Never assume… never assume!
My bad, I got those two fact mixed up. :smack:
Either way you are our resident tour expert, so I hope you will hang around.
Mirio was a good rider, and a better showman. I don’t think he ever finished a single Tour de France, AFAIR. He seems to have been in it for the fame and the women.
I like Lance’s intensity and ability to be circumspect. Besides, I think he’s got a pretty dry sense of humour so he comes across more serious than he is.
Gotta agree with you on the Aussie talent these last few years. They are getting stronger and more of a threat every year.
What cycling event(s) did you ride in 1984?
Bwaaahahaha! That’s a first!
Oh no way… not at all. He was the PREMIER bunch sprinter in the Pro Tour for a long, long time - almost 10 years. His wins in one day classics like Milan-San Remo and the 2002 World Championships were the stuff of legend - definitely the type of stuff that cemented his reputation as one of the “great riders” of the past 20 years.
But you know, pro cycling is a bit like pro tennis in reality. Some players are suited to certain surfaces, and others (like Agassi) are potential winners on every surface. If you love tennis, you can see greatness every where you look. But it would be remiss to trash Pete Sampras because he never won the French Open.
And that’s the analogy of trashing Cippollini for never finishing the Tour de France. He finished a lot of Giro’s, which are 95% as tough. And he won races all season long. He was the sort of “classical rider” who raced the entire season - not just July. Sure, he was garish to the point of being gauche, but geez he could back it up.
The Road Race and the 4 x 100km Team Time Trial (an event which sadly, no longer exists in favour of the much more boring Individual Time Trial).
It’s hard to say. The tour has almost three weeks to go, and a lot can happen in three weeks. What if Lance catches a cold? Also, remember that in 2003 Ullrich took 1’36" off Lance in a time trial, so it’s not like Armstrong is completely unbeatable. It will be interesting to see what the T-Mobile team decides to do if Vinokourov continues to stay ahead of Ullrich though.
I agree completely. So, Boo Boo Foo who do you think is the greatest ever? Armstrong, Hinault, Anquetil, Merckx, Indurain? I’d like to hear your opinion. In my opinion Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist ever, with Joop Zoetemelk a close second. I’m kidding about Zoetemelk, but serious about Merckx, of course
I’m very fond of Big Mig for some reason. But that doesn’t answer your question however.
I suspect Eddy Merckx (given today’s technology and training knowledge) would have wiped Armstrong off the road, all things being equal. That guy won all 3 jersey’s in 1969’s Tour de France - and won the yellow AND green jerseys on another 2 occasions - such was his completeness in all disciplines. And he was hungry, all season long. He won the spring classics and won the autumn classics, including the World Championship, and won all 3 Grand Tours on various occasions. And he won the Olympic Road Race in 1964 if memory serves me correctly. Statistically, Eddy’s the man… by a long way I rather think.
However, in the narrow window of July, yeah, Armstrong’s the greatest in terms of wins and numbers of days in yellow etc etc. But there’s no way I’d say he’s the most entertaining. That race in 1989 where Fignon and Lemond traded solo breakaways each day of the last week, each trading the yellow jersey every single day, well, Armstrong hasn’t had to ride like that in any of his winning years. Although, to be fair, he won a few stages last year with quite a deal of panache, and his team has put him in winning positions via the Team Trial on a number of occasions too.
Still, without doubt, the greatest ever ride I’ve seen (LIKE EVAH!) was Bernard Hinault’s ride in the 1981 World Road Race Championship. He missed the winning decisive break of 13 riders at the 140km mark and set off on a solo chase to bridge the gap. He dragged along a poor Spaniard who never took one turn the whole way. For the next 120km Hinault chased the break and bridged the 1’30" gap and the whole way, 6 Italians in the lead break worked like a train. With just one 1km lap to go in the 270km race, Hinault put in one last sprint and got across and dropped the Spaniard! And he did it just in time for the sprint finish!
The Italians led out Guiseppe Saronni (who was ultra quick), and Freddie Maertens grabbed his wheel and pipped him for the World CHampionship. And then, just 5 meters past the line, Hinault flew passed both of them - that’s how close he got to winning! He was 3rd across the line but was actually mowing both of 'em down. After a 120km solo chase.
When I see Armstrong do something like that, I’ll recalibrate my assessment of his career.
Ignoring the typo, this statement stands. I’ll lurk in this thread to see how it developes, but it’s Lance yet again. Find a bookie.
And if I’m way off base and all wet when they ride through the Arc d’Triumph with Lance not winning, I’ll be back for the pitting.
Hey, I agree that Lance is in control right now, but a lot can happen in three weeks and more than 3000 kilometers. Lance can get sick, he can have a bad fall, anything can happen. That’s why winning the Tour more than once is such an amazing accomplishment. I wouldn’t place any bets yet, and as Greg Le Mond proved in 1989, you shouldn’t even place your bets before the final day. I don’t think anyone was expecting Fignon to give up more than 50 seconds in a short time trial of only 24.5 kilometers.
Note - what I’m about to say is ASSuming we don’t see a bad crash or something unforeseen.
Look, I totally agree there Duffer. Based on what I saw in both the recent Dauphine and Tour of Switzerland, yeah… it’s already a lay down Misere. Armstrong’s gonna clean up by probably 4 to 5 minutes I’m predicting.
As it stands, Armstrong is (yet again) already effectively in yellow, as has been the case after the Team Time Trial for the last, oh, 4 years now. And by extension, it’s been a bit like watching Schumacher win all his F1 World Championships. That is, intellectually thrilling, but not emotionally so.
The last time Armstrong had a REAL threat was Pantani, and Marco’s love of drugs put an end to that, sadly. But Pantani could take minutes out of Armstrong on a climb, and Armstrong knew it. He hasn’t had that threat since 2000, and certainly, with the possible exception of Aitor Gonzales, it doesn’t exist this year, either.
With all due respect for Eddy, a great great rider in all respects, one has to give Lance similar respect.
Given today’s technology and new training knowledge, it’s arguably harder to stay at the forefront of the sport because every rider takes advantage of these new technologies in a much better and more rigorous way. Makes it harder to maintain a competitive edge on the field.
I think it’s also worth a mention that Merckx never had to overcome pervasive and invasive illness to come back as a world champion in one of the toughest endurance sports in the world. We can only speculate but it’s worth considering how illness might have negatively impacted Armstrong’s overall performance. It’s not like cancer made him a physically more able rider. Mentally, well, that’s a different story.
Also, I agree, individual time trials are dull. Team time trials, when well executed, are like watching the Blue Angels perform in a flight show. Truly a work of art and precision.
I respect Lance Armstrong - during the month of July. For the rest of the year? Nobody I know in cycling mentions his name. He’s a non event. What I’m about to say is opinion, and it doubtless is controversial being an American messageboard and all. But here goes… Lance Armstrong is famous… NOW. Not between August and June of next year, just July. He is NOT at the forefront of the sport. He does NOT rule Pro Cycling within light years of the way that Roger Federer say, rules tennis.
Armstrong comes out to play once a year, in July. He does it amazingly well. He does it better than anyone else. But he is NOT at the forefront of the sport. Th current leader of the Pro Tour rankings is a guy called Daniel di Luca of Italy. He’s the current best in the sport, overall, for the entire length of the season.
I am not anti Amrstrong. He’s redefined what it means to “peak in July”. But there’s no way you could say he’s given more to the sport than he’s taken from it.
It’s like a motor racing driver coming out to race at the Indy 500 each year and then disappearing. That’s not called being “generous” to the sport you love. That’s called exploiting it, in my book.
But you, if I’m not mistaken, are one of the ones who also staunchly believes Armstrong dopes, right? You’ll have to pardon me if I take your opinion of Armstrong in particular (even though I greatly respect your knowledge of the sport in general) with a few dozen grains of salt.
Nah, I think Armstrong’s pretty clean actually. I think he trains more specifically than anyone else, and I also think he would never have won the Tour de France if he hadn’t lost 8 kilos due to his cancer scare. I don’t think he dopes. But I do think he takes some anti-remission drugs which aid in his ability to stay astonishingly gaunt. Which, by extension, aids his power to weight ratio.
However, even if that isn’t true - which I’m happy to concede might well be the case - my assessment of Armstrong as a cyclist remains. His incredibly narrow minded focus on the “cherry on top of the ice cream” which is the Tour de France is eerily similar to the golfer Peter Thompson.
And who was Peter Thompson? He’s an Australian golfer who won the British Open 5 times in the late 50’s and early 60’s. Never heard of him? That’s because the Nicklaus’s and Palmer’s of this world were winning everything, all season long over all 4 majors. Armstrong is not a Nicklaus in other words.
But he doesn’t dope. I’ll gladly give him that. He’s a fine athlete and wonderfully articulate.
Then I’ll have to eat crow and apologize. Sorry about that. I just seem to recall some threads from last year where you were pretty strident in your contention that he was juiced.
I can see your larger point, though, but I appreciate Armstrong for several reasons (and I doubt I’ll ever forget him or his accomplishments, regardless how obscure he might eventually become) - he beat cancer, he came back and won. A lot. He has kept his composure in the face of threats and allegations like a true champ. He has made me acutely aware of a sport I didn’t even know I had an interest in. And not least of all, he has opened the door (or helped to widen the crack) to American professional cyclists who might not have been considered for sponsorship at all a few years ago.