The Orville Season 2

You must have really been feeling it. :wink:

“hey - when we get back to earth we should meet at <name of location they know is destroyed or both hate>”

The entire way its stated makes it way too obvious - it was forced.

Better to just tell him he loved him.

Thirteen button salute.

Go watch it again. They weren’t red.

EDIT: Here’s a screenshot:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124523/6818592-the+orville+kaylons.jpg

Zoom in if you must, but they are orange.

Here is Primary:

More clearly a red shade.

Was this guy “Primary” of the attacking fleet, or of all the Kaylons?

Implied to be the “Primary” of the entire species, but if they said later he was only the Primary of the attacking fleet it wouldn’t directly contradict anything (I think).

If you insist. There was also clearly one with amber eyes. That’s what I assumed you meant by orange eyes.

When did Isaac develop real concern for Ty, say?

If it was prior to this episode, then why did he drop Ty’s drawing on the ground in this episode? Had he kept the drawing, that would have been a good hint for the viewer that it was really Isaac, and he really cares about Ty at some level. Instead it would be a red herring under this interpretation.

If it was *during *this episode, then that’s one hell of an about face. It’s one thing for him to be against exterminating humans, but another for the turning point to be saving Ty and saying “I won’t let them hurt you, Ty”. That really seems to be trying to tell the viewer that Isaac genuinely cares about Ty specifically.

It doesn’t really work either way you look at it.

Once again though, I loved both episodes.

I agree that narratively those things are at odds. But it’s plausible that someone almost completely unsentimental would give no regard for the physical copy of someone’s drawing (having already perfectly committed to memory) but at the same time not wishing actual harm on that person.

It’s true that it muddles the narrative/thematic point they’re trying to make.

Isaac’s a computer. Why would he care about a printout of an image he has perfectly scanned and can re-print as needed?

(A drawing isn’t a printout to us, but to Isaac it probably is. Also, by “re-print” I mean he could physically draw the exact image himself in probably under a minute.)

Well, at least that explains why Halston Sage had to be replaced by the same character.

Hmm I missed the amber one, I wonder if it was designed for a special purpose? That’s interesting, thanks. :slight_smile:

Ellis Dee and SenorBeef have both said pretty much what I wanted to say, but I’ll say it my own way anyway.

As I see it, Isaac doesn’t fully understand human emotions (we saw that in the episode in which Dr. Finn and Isaac began their dating); therefore he doesn’t understand that to a human, the physical drawing has an emotional weight. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about Ty continuing to live. I suspect that if Primary had ordered Isaac to destructively record Ty’s brain so that Ty’s personality could be placed in a Kaylon body, things would have gone much differently…

What’s the evidence that Isaac knew all along the plan was to exterminate humans, or even that Prime knew all along?

Good points. Although doesn’t this include the script that wrote her out of the show? Or I suppose that just required a little rewriting rather than a lot.

This is exactly why I complained that in the first part of the two parter, they “wrecked” Isaac’s character. The way he acted after being revived (the first time, on Kaylon) is hard to square with the character’s growth in past episodes as fulfilled in the second part. However, given the corner they put themselves in narratively, what they did in the second part was the least worst way of wriggling out of it IMO. I’m just going to choose not to think too hard about his callousness.

Human emotion can be tricky, particularly if you are not experienced with it. It’s one thing to go along with exterminating all biologicals. It’s another to see one that you care about exterminated in front of you, or worse, being forced to do it yourself. And it could be even trickier if you don’t realized that you actually care for them.

When watching that episode, I had the feeling that the entire final piece of Alara talking to the captain and then hugging goodbye every crewmember who ever heard of the Orville was all added after the fact.

As in, what they aired was the normal 43(ish) minute episode they originally wrote and shot, plus an interminable 4(ish) minute add-on scene that they shot later after they decided to write her out.

The “limited commercial interruptions” factor helped simplify that deal, I think. And if you’re combing through the episodes looking for a good place to get rid of Alara, the end of the Alara episode makes sense.

Good point. And then they write an introduction scene for the new security chief, and we’re done.

Here is a couple of stills from the show: one shows more than one amber one (beside Isaac and a red eye for comparison) and another shot with three or more red eyes, which is how I remember it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/3147c673ec2f9e4b474f7ca3fb9945d7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/ddca5b65d92a112e555a310748e3fac1.jpg

I still disagree.

e.g. From a narrative / story writing point of view. When he drops the picture, and the music makes an ominous tone, clearly we the viewer are meant to be thinking “Oh no, he really doesn’t care about Ty, it was a lie all along!” or something like “Is this really ISAAC?”

If later, the explanation is merely “Well, it’s ISAAC, and he cares about Ty, but he’s an android so you can’t read too much into any particular behaviour like dropping a drawing” it’s pretty lazy storywriting: we the viewer have been given misleading information for no purpose other than to set up a (double) twist.

I agree with what you’re saying. It’s thematically messy, but practically justifiable. That’s bad storytelling, but not necessarily a plot hole. But you’re right, if you break down Isaac’s motivations, it doesn’t add up convincingly.