The Oscars and Race

Great Debates
1

I thought this belonged in Great Debates because it could quickly degenerate into a debate about racial issues, if it doesn’t, then I guess I blew it and it belongs in the Cafe…

In any case, let me say first that I was thrilled. These awards seemed really dull to me, with mostly mediocre movies, and I thought one fun way to shake it up would be for Denzel and Halle to win. I was even more entranced by the idea when I learned about Poitier’s award. So, from a pure entertainment/fun perspective, tonight was very fun. Halle was so sweet and emotional (and stunning), it was just great.

On the other hand…I don’t know that I’m so thrilled with how it went down on a political/social level.

First of all, if you know anything about Poitier, you know that he was never really interested in being “The First Black Actor…”. There was a time when he found the attention paid to his race downright irritating. He has always wanted to be known for his art, as a man, not a black man, not his black art. So I wonder how completely thrilled he was with what he said himself tonight, and even more, that it’s 37 years later and it’s STILL a big issue.

Secondly, I think there is a small taint on both Halle and Denzel’s wins that they were * about * race… I’ve seen both performances, and they were both wonderful, but I think there was en element of “it’s time for the African Americans to win…” or at least a perception of that.

Maybe I’m overly sensitive and unrealistic, but to me, under it all, there was still an echo of Hattie McDaniel’s wince-worth words of half a century ago: “I hope to always be a credit to my race.”

Wouldn’t it be great if the fact that Halle and Denzel are black was not something that would even be remarked upon?

But I gues you can’t get there without going through here first.

I don’t know that I’m inviting debate… what are the reactions of other Dopers to the whole race element to tonight?

2

If either of the Oscars were cheapened, it was Halle’s, who made a big deal about her race in her asburd “acceptance” speech. She turned the entire thing into a race issue with her speech, trumpeting herself for having “knocked down a door.” She didn’t knock down any doors. The door was open, she just ahppened to be the first black woman to walk through it.

What really ticks me off is that she is a good actress, and deserving of the honor. But because of her skill, not because of her race.

Between that, and the Academy picking a worthless, maudlin, unoriginal film as best picture over a sweeping epic the scale of which Hollywood has never seen, I’d say the show was pretty bad.

However, I will say Denzel Washington was a class act. He got up there, accepted the award like anyone else would have. Tipped his hat to Sidney Poitier as was appropriate, and generally came across as the intelligent, grounded guy I think he is.

Kirk

3

I didn’t think Black Hawk Down was that much of a sweeping epic…

4

**

Spike Lee feels the same way and I think Halle Barry does to some degree. There was an interview on television and some reporter asked Spike what it was like to direct a non-Black film, in reference to Son of Sam, and Spike got really pissed off. I’ve read a few interviews with Halle where she complains about the lack of decent roles for black actors in hollywood.

I imagine it would be frustrating if someone always thought of you as a “black” actor. It is one thing to be pigeon holed because of a particular role you played. (Leonard Nimoy) It is another to be pigeon holed because of something that is beyond your control.

**

This is another thing I think adds to the frustration of black artist. Nobody points to Mel Gibson and touts him as a credit to his race or think that he makes “white” movies. But there seems to be such expectations on black artist and indeed on any prominent black person.

**

Yeah, it’d be great. It’d be nice to know that the Academy awards people for merit and not for other reasons. But somehow I think the Academy has always been rolled up in politics of one sort or another.

The Academy has been accused of ignoring black actors and movie makers in the past. Maybe this was their way of trying to right a perceived wrong.

Marc

5

These Oscars could really be a turning point, AFAIC. Now that the line has been crossed, so to speak, I’m hoping that race WON’T be an issue in the future. I hope that in the coming year there will be a lot more multicultural roles and more racial diversity in the nominations. And then when someone who is not white wins again, people will say with 100% certainty that it was won because he/she is a great actor/director/singer/whatever.

Hell, I just want Jackie Chan to get an Oscar :smiley:

6

Well, I felt the same way as Stoid during the Olympics, listening to the commentators natter on about “the first Hispanic-American to win a medal” and “the first African-American to win a medal”. I was, like, “Come on, people, a person won a medal, not a category.”

It was rather annoying.

Because the trouble is, where does it stop? There’s no end to it. The first Asian-American, the first naturalized American, the first lesbian, the first Down’s syndrome, the first pregnant, the first chronically depressed, the first left-handed, the first this, the first that… Why does it always have to be broken down into categories?

7

I think Berry’s comments were entirely appropriate. Yes, she talked about race–it’s important to her as a person and an actor. Boo-hoo to all the people who don’t want to hear about it. The simple fact is that Hollywood is not colorblind. But maybe this will bring it closer.

Otherwise, Washington admitted that Training Day might not have been his best role, or the best movie he’s been in. Further, he acknowledged that the Academy members vote for all sorts of reasons besides quality of performance. His response: “I’m keeping the Oscar anyway.” Good for him.

Got the new rose-tinted prescription, eh Goosie? :wink:

8

Until race is banal in the United States, it will continue to be of note. Despite frequent claims to the contrary, skin color definitely plays a role in our society – often a negative one. That is changing, slowly but surely, and I hope within my lifetime the frequent proclamations of ‘color-blindness’ will have a ring of truth to them. I agree with a prior poster, as each such award occurs, the more race neutral the process should become in the long run, given the apparent evolution of our society. To those bothered by such notations, I note that American society is in a process of change, no longer (perhaps) is white the default, the unthinking normal. So, there will be a period of heightened awareness, and hopefully that can be managed into a more or less color-blind society. Certainly that Berry and Washington and others *appear[/I[ to be getting more and more ‘race-neutral’ roles and race-based type-casting appears to be receding, as Marc noted, there is cause for hope. But we are not yet there either.

Of course, on the other hand, sportscasters seem to be given over to an obsession with mentioned the most obscure statistic, not just in re race and ethnicity. Indeed it says something about society that these are more noticeable than the other myriad other pseudo-stats which sportscasters fabricate.

In fact it would be useful for SDMB members to reflect on observational bias and why (as in Affirmative Action) some things are noticable (race) while others (most hitting left handed 3rd baseman) are simply white noise. It would likely prove, assuming one is honest with oneself, revealing.

9

Halle Berry’s a dickhead

Someone I knew, (not well, so I didn’t have a big connection with her), died by a hit and run. I could NEVER imagine me doing that.

You only make it a career ender if you walk away.

As far as race and Oscars go, I have no opinion yet.

Just can’t stand the Berry sweet talk

10

Well, on one hand, it would be nice if Academy members based their votes purely on the quality of individual movies and individual performances. But let’s face it, that’s NEVER been the case! Voters always have a host of different motives.

Sometimes, voters give an Oscar to a veteran actor as a reward for a BODY of outstanding work, even if the individual performance in question was nothing special (think of John Wayne in “True Grit,” Al Pacino in “Scent of a Woman,” or Henry Fonda in “On Golden Pond”).

Sometimes, voters give an Oscar to an actor to make a political statement. When the Academy gave Tom Hanks the Oscar for “Philadelphia,” they weren’t so much rewarding an actor for a good performance as they were showing solidarity with AIDS victims. I also think films like “Gentleman’s Agreement” and “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” won awards more for their political messages than for their artistic quality.

Sometimes, voters go for mediocre actors they like, and other times, they shun quality actors they DON’T like. I suspect (I can’t KNOW, of course) that Russell Crowe would have won Best Actor this year if he hadn’t gotten into that brawl with that producer in England).

So… given that voters have ALWAYS had a variety of motives, quite apart from the quality of the films and performances, I don’t see that it’s so outrageous to include race as one factor among many. Denzel Washington has been a fine actor for many years, and has given MANY worthy performances. So, MAYBE this year, some voters thought to themselves, “Russell and Denzel were both great, but… Russell already has an Oscar, and gosh, it would be nice to see a black winner for a change.”

And IF that was part of their thought processes, well, I can’t get too upset about it.

11

I am amused in retrospect by Jada Pinkett’s remarks before the ceremonies. She was being interviewed by the dessicated corpse of Joan Rivers, who asked why she wasn’t at some party the night before. Jada drew herself up haughtily and said that she and Will Smith “were at the BLACK Oscars.”

My thought then was, “huh? They have a ‘black’ Oscars?” Now, I’m thinking, “well, that’s obviously a concept whose time has passed.”

12

Are we following the “one drop” rule now?

I thought Halle Berry’s mother was white.

:confused:

13

. . .so she is. Your point?

14

Yeah, but that is harldy the one drop rule. The one drop rule rather ref’d, historically, people of much less “black” heritage, i.e. those who could borderline pass as white. Insofar as I believe that is harldy arguable in Halle’s case, it’s rather a non-issue in her case.

15

Yeah, I’m being purposefully obtuse to make a point.

The whole idea of race distiction is a silly hangup. Particularly in our increasingly multi-racial society.

I admire Tiger Woods for refusing to be pigeon-holed as a “black” golfer.

16

I see.

Well, yes true enough, on the other hand the reality is that Tiger as the first black golfer helped leverage a sea of change in the sport and in public perceptions.

We could pretend that this is not the case and pretend that the sport is color-blind but that’s not the reality.

I would say that Halle, given that she has a white parent and doesn’t strike me as ‘radical’ was giving voice to frustration at the reality that she has been and is judged by skin color to some extent.

That’s our reality. I do think it is changing, in my lifetime I’ve seen a sea of change, but let’s not pretend we’ve gotten further than we have. That would be sweeping reality under the carpet.

17

Maybe. But to politicize the award (as she did with her acceptance speech) serves more to reinforce racial divisions than to tear them down. The politicization of the award also demeans her Oscar victory (insofar as people may wonder, “Did she deserve the award, or did the Academy just decide that it was high time that a ‘black’ actress won?”)

I preferred Denzel’s low-key approach. Acknowledge the issue, but don’t wallow in it.

18

Oh, and I also thought the speech was a bit self-aggrandizing in a “Look at me! I’m Rosa Parks!” sorta way.

19

I agree, Denzel’s approach is ultimately more powerful.

Like I said in the Pit, I ain’t a huge fan of the girl, looker that she is, she’s also a bit of a ditz.

But I don’t think her speech per se was all that bad, by actor standards.

20

You’re not the only one to reach that conclusion, but I cannot for the life of me understand why. How on earth did she “politicize” the award?