I find it amusing to have read the OP in the other topic with a similar name. The main idea seems to be that the U.S. government TELLS LIES (gasp! No? A politician might twist the truth for political ends? What a shock!). On the other hand, of course, the OP seems to accept that the Taliban and al-Qaeda and rabid fundamentalist-Muslim mullahs always speak ONLY THE TRUTH.
So, IF there are lies on the U.S. side (I am not conceding that point, mind you, just going hypothetical), it seems only fair to note what the OTHER side says:
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“THIS IS A WAR AGAINST ISLAM.”
What utter BS. The U.S. government has proceeded very carefully to try to avoid that impression. If it were a war against Islam, wouldn’t we be targeting Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia? Wouldn’t we be bombing Mecca and Medina? Bah. This is pure propogandistic lies, put forth by the Taliban and the rabid-fundamentalist-mullahs to rouse up religious ferver among the uneducated, to con the unwary into enlisting in suicide missions. The Taliban may see it as a war against their barbaric breed of fundamentalist Islam, but they are willing to twist that for propoganda purposes. -
“THE ATTACKS ON SEPT 11 WERE NOT TERRORISM BUT GUERILLA WARFARE AGAINST THE GREAT ENEMY.”
Again, total BS. If al-Qaeda really and truly believed this, they would have taken “credit” for the attack on September 12. If they really thought it was a blow for their cause to be proud of, they would have said so. Not a chance. They know that the entire world – including the rest of the Islamic world – views these acts as deceitful, murderous terrorism, focused on mass destruction, not on any other objective. -
“IF THE U.S. DID NOT BLINDLY SUPPORT ISRAEL IN EVERY ASPECT, IF THE U.S. WERE MORE EVEN-HANDED, THE ATTACKS WOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED.”
Again, total lies and distortion.
(1)The main (stated) reason for bin-Laden’s anger is not U.S. support of Israel, but (his words) the intrusion of U.S. infidels on sacred Saudi soil during the Gulf War. For more, see below.
(2) The U.S. does NOT “blindly support Israel;” on many occasions, the U.S. has pressured Israel to step down. The most dramatic was the 1971 War, when Israel had turned the tide and was ready to beat Egypt, Jordan, and Syria into pulp, and the U.S. urged them to stand pat. But there have been many, many other instances. Israel and the U.S. are certainly allies, and therefore support each other (as we usually support Britain, Canada, and our other allies) but that doesn’t mean there isn’t disagreement.
(3) The goal of al-Qaeda (and of the Palestinian terrorist gangs) is NOT simply to get the U.S. to be “more even-handed.” That’s just polite code. Their goals – frequently stated, but rarely published in the U.S. – are to kill all the Jews, drive them out of Israel, and take over the entire region. They are not pushing for the creation of a Palestinian state, except insofar as that is one step on the road towards the destruction of Israel. -
“THE TALIBAN DEEPLY CARES ABOUT ITS CIVILIANS, AND IS DISMAYED BY THE HANDFUL OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.”
The dung piles higher and deeper. First, of course, is the obvious comment made by Rumsfeld – the al-Qaeda started this war by attacking civilians in the center of New York City. They don’t give a rat’s ass about the lives of infidel civilians. The letters found by the FBI, sent to the terrorists to encourage them, make it clear that al-Qaeda view Americans as infidel dogs and NOT as human beings.
Second, the Taliban have, for years, murdered and mutilated the Afghan people in the name of “interpreting Islamic Law” literally according to the principles of 700 AD or so. The Taliban believe it is correct to murder people for preaching Christianity. Or committing adultery. Or a woman who didn’t adhere to their strict dress code. The Taliban don’t care about the Afghan people and don’t care about civilian deaths, except insofar as civilian deaths are useful publicity. Consider: the Tabliban have banned all Western Press EXCEPT to bring them to a devastated village and let them take pictures of suffering civilians (although the cause of the devastation and suffering is not at all clear.) Are the Taliban capable of having destroyed a village for the sake of sympathetic press/publicity in the West? You bet. Did Curious George swallow this hook, line, and sinker? You bet.
- “THE CAUSE OF BIN-LADEN’S ANGER AGAINST THE U.S. WAS OUR MILITARY PRESENCE IN SAUDI ARABIA.”
This lie actually has a grain of truth to it, that was certainly one of the causes of his anger. But that was left behind long ago. His anger is now directed against the U.S. as an infidel nation, the Great Satan, that must be destroyed both physically and ideologically. From the viewpoint of al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the rabid-fundamentalist-mullahs, this IS a religious war against anything that disagrees with their brand of Islam. (By the way, don’t for a minute think that they would not also be fighting mainstream Egyptian-style Islam, or other sects of Islam as well. Those more liberal Islamic groups are just as hated by the Taliban – they just consider it expedient to enlist them first on the war against non-Islamic peoples. They’ll turn on the liberal Muslims later. - “THE AMERICANS ATTACKED MILITARILY WITHOUT FIRST PURSUING OTHER MEANS.”
Hogwash. The U.S. government spent weeks pursuing other means, and continues to do so. Such efforts are kept secret, because publicity might ruin them – for example, if you are looking for people in al-Qaeda to spy on bin-Laden, you do not want a major news story about how Fred Feeblemind is being asked whether he’d tell the CIA about where bin-Laden is hiding.
The U.S. has consistently told the Taliban that they need only hand over bin-Laden and his crew, and the bombings will stop. Why didn’t the Taliban agree? Well, ostensibly because it would have “violated” rules of Islamic hospitality (total bull-shit, nothing in the rules of Islamic hospitality says that you have to harbor murderers and fugitives from justice). But, in reality, of course, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are hand-in-glove.
Yes, it is true, the U.S. tends to act faster than many other countries would. This is a sad factor of our democratic system – a President who stalled for six or eight months before responding to the Sept 11 attacks would be screwing his party in the next election. However, the Taliban certainly had an easy way out: turn over the al-Qaeda leaders.
OK, this is probably more a vent than a Great Debate, but I find it mildly bemusing to read the anti-American press that thinks that only America is the bad guy, only the American government tells lies. And then to put up such unmitigated bull-shit as that this is all some sort of ploy over oil. I just wanted to remind folks about WHO tells the lies in this war.
[Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 10-17-2001 at 08:14 AM]
