I heartily agree with the first paragraph. You would think that Steve would vote for a candidate who would keep unions legal and want safety and labor laws enforced. If Steve instead votes for the fascist who wants to make unions illegal, do away with minimum wage, and eliminate safety and labor laws- there is likely something wrong with Steve. At best, he lacks critical thinking skills. Trump has fed him lies. Steve has unquestionably believed them rather than evaluating whether they are plausible or investigating to see if they are true. I feel this is a problem with many people who voted for Trump. If you believe that Haitians are eating our pets, and that the Left wants to make homosexuality mandatory and give “sex changes” to 7 year olds, then it makes a great deal of sense to vote Trump.
I am not understanding you. My friend stood by while Trump won. He could have- very easily and with zero risk to himself-done something to stop him- voting for Harris. Instead, he made the choice to do nothing.
As I told my friend (we both play Dungeons & Dragons), true neutrality is impossible in reality. Whether you choose to act, whether you choose to not act, you are always helping one side or the other.
He’ll never vote for them at all, because he is a racist fascist moron. Trying to appeal to the racist fascist morons is one way the Democrats have screwed themselves over.
I told you why I hate Steve, he’s a fucking moron.
He claims he can’t tell the difference between the two political parties who are completely divergent on literally every conceivable issue. He says the Democrats aren’t appealing to him when they have been fighting unceasingly for decades to try and get him higher wages, more access to health care, more access to services, only to be prevented by the Republicans who, literally every single time they’re in office, try to cut services for people like Steve so that rich people can get bigger tax breaks.
Why doesn’t he follow politics? Unless you have a very good reason, I would consider that a failing on its own. Does Steve follow any other news? Why can he not educate himself about politics? Does have no internet access at all? Does he not receive mail from political candidates like everybody else? Has he switched to some form of television viewing where he does not see any ads- including political ads?
How many people have literally fought and died for the right to live under some form of democracy and to be able to vote in meaningful, free and fair elections? Steve has given up that right. Why exactly has he done that?
Are the Dems really doing that good of a job for working-class Americans? Voting would suggest they are not (it’s not just Steve).
I think when it is sometimes suggested the parties are the same (when they clearly are not) they mean our politicians, most of them, are in the pocket of Big Money. Dems will throw some crumbs off the table and make impassioned stump speeches but they have not delivered since the 80s. See the Clinton’s “Third Way.”
Good jobs moved oversea. Unions are busted almost everywhere. Meaningful tax relief only goes to the wealthy. Housing prices have soared out of reach for most. Tuition costs are likewise soaring out of reach for most. Relief in courts is harder to come by (think bankruptcy). Healthcare is a disaster. And so on.
I want to see the Dems really get into a fight over this stuff rather than roll over in the name of bi-partisanship or just hand-wringing from the sidelines. We saw this most recently with Schumer caving on the continuing resolution a week or so ago (there is another thread on that here).
It illustrates the point. I liked Obama but he was so keen on never getting into a fight with republicans and more interested in centrism for the sake of centrism. I wanted him to go to the mat more than once and I don’t think he ever did (or, at least, rarely did).
Then yes, the problem is definitely with Steve and nobody else but Steve.
I do not follow sports. I knew when the Phillies won the World Series (I forget what year it was) when I was awoken at 2 am by people cheering and setting off fireworks in the parking lot just outside my window. The noise kept me up for a while. Their win did not otherwise effect me.
The Eagles won the last Super Bowl. Again, some noise kept me up for a while. My Gobhi and I had to cancel plans we had made a month or two earlier to see The Rocky Horror Picture Show. The victory parade was happening that day and getting to and from the theater would have been a nightmare. Their win did not otherwise effect me.
Who is in office and what laws get passed effect Steve (and everybody else living in the country) quite a lot. He has chosen (you said he did not need a reason) not to follow politics or vote. Thus, he knows nothing about the Democrats, The Republicans, Trump, Harris or anybody else. If he, by your own admission, does not know what the Democratic party’s message is or what there positions are- how can it possibly be the fault of the Democratic party?
Saying “he doesn’t know or pay attention” to something as important to his welfare as politics isn’t an argument against him being ignorant, or stupid. The exact opposite, in fact.
Changing policy positions gains some voters and lose others. While U.S. public support for Israel is at a record low, voters still lean towards Israel:
In a country where it is legal to not vote, there always will be a lot of people who do not vote despite leaning towards a party. If all those people voted, their party would win, except that you cannot mobilize one side without mobilizing the other party.
The Democrats are the party of higher voting propensity voters. They why they do so well in off-years and special elections. I think that Trumpian economic mismanagement will lead to even more Republicans staying home next year than is normal.
Catering to people who already are high propensity for your side will increase campaign contributions, but probably lose votes overall.
Dems (liberals) tend to be younger. Reps (conservatives) tend to be older. Old people vote in droves. Ever tried to interest a 19 year-old in politics much less get them to go to a polling place and stand in line for a few hours to do it? Good luck.
Ok, I think you’ve both more than made your points about “Steve,” and the back-and-forth has become a distraction. Time to drop this as it’s becoming a hijack. Let’s get back to more general discussion over the generic “Independents,” who are the subject of this thread.
