The "Pit" is a contemptible forum unworthy of the SDMB

I’ve never posted in the Pit, though a moderator several months ago did move there an impulsive, sophomoric mini-rant of mine that railed against the philosophical mumbo-jumbo of post-modern “thinkers.” [Including the word “damn” in the thread title did me no favors.]

Since I joined back in January 2001, I’ve steadfastly avoided the Pit, but started skimming some of the threads recently and have been amazed at the vindictiveness, intolerance, invective-strewn meanness and borderline psychopathology showcased in this sad little forum. Not by everyone, of course, but it’s disquieting to see so many otherwise sensible, intelligent and esteemed posters either frothing at the mouth over life’s latest injustice or gang assaulting some other poster for his/her beliefs or behavior elsewhere.

The SDMB is among the best message boards on the Net, but providing a forum wherein posters are given free rein to be hateful, vicious, and/or vulgar does nothing to elevate the Board and much to degrade it.

It keeps the vitrol nicely contained and away from the other forums. But at the same time there can be some fantastic free flowing debates in here that don’t get slowed down by the statement/call for cite process of GD.

Well, since it’s all over there, that hate and invective doesn’t affect those forums that you do care about.

Think of it as a safety valve.

Fuck off, tool.

Shit. I thought this was in the Pit for some stupid reason. Sorry.

Change my last response to “I respectfully disagree.”

What he said.

People like the OP aren’t too bad, at least they have the sense to stay away from what they don’t want to see. It’s the people that come into the Pit and then attempt to raise the tone that irritate me.

“You didn’t need to cuss at me.”

“That insult was unnecessary.”

“You could be more polite.”

BS, you can’t get away with unsubstantiated BS in the Pit anymore than you can in GD. I think of the Pit as a place for more serious discussion of the issues. A place where we do not have to tolerate the loonies that spout pure unsubstantiated bull shit. In the pit if someone attempts to interject rediculous assertions we can call them a stupid motherfucker, unlike in GD where all kinds of hairbrained idiocies must be tolerated.

That being said there are many trite whiny woe is me threads that we could do without. I would not try to change this place or the Pit, but if I had my way I would create a MPSIMS(cussing allowed) forum that would get all the “I stubbed my fucking toe, and my mom would not even kiss it better” threads.

The Pit is not my favorite place in the world, but I also “respectfully disagree”…people get enjoyment out of it, so what is it to you? I agree that it’s hard to be polite here. I find it rather obnoxious behavior that you should think to speak for everyone on the boards: “The Pit is not worthy of the SDMB”…blah, blah.

Add my vote to those who would like it to stay around, if you’re counting.

I used to think of it that way too, until Lynn told me in no uncertain terms that the Pit is not a place for debates, and that if I wanted to debate, I should go to GD. Since about an hour after I came back from suspension, I’ve spent zero time there. And it has helped me a lot.

I don’t buy into the theory that the Pit serves as some sort of cleanser for the other forums. The rules of GD would still be the rules of GD with or without a Pit. It has been my experience that the Pit is just MPSIMS, except without the suppression of meanness and cruelty. And I say that as one who was just as cruel there as anyone else.

Except that being against the rules does not equate to being impossible. The anger and vitriol has to go someplace. If there were no Pit, it would either go offboard (which would be great, but we all know it doesn’t stay there for long, vis a vis various LJ fiascoes) or spill over into other forums, rules be damned. We’d have a lot more bannings and suspensions than we do now, and those do little in the way of ameliorating the situation.

In other words, in GD most assertions can have a demand made for cites. That in turn can bog the whole thing down. Pit debates dispense with that when it comes to things like the earth being round.

I’ve seen, demanded and offered cites in the Pit. It may not be the place for debates, but often quite good ones break out there. Perhaps arguments is a better word to use than debates, as they are certainly more free-wheeling and less constrained than in GD.

I’m not saying there’s no dross in the Pit, of course there is. The other forums are not exempt from Sturgeon’s Law either. But there’s more to it than meets the eye.

Even though I rarely even lurk there, I agree there is value to the Pit. I’m probably not the only one who has seen other boards become poisoned by their need for a Pit–BBQ, septic, something! This way those who need that kind of thing can get it without leaving the community or bothering those of us who generally don’t want to go there.

Well…if you’re counting…

My first impression of the SDMB was, ‘Cool, a place where some intelligent discourse/discussions etc can be had.’ The whole "fighting ignorance’ thing appealed to me.

However, after a [relatively brief] time my impression was changed. With some regularity a poster will comment on how the SDMB is a bastion of raw intellect and mental prowess, and go on about the high intellectual standards displayed here.

Every once in a while, however, some poster, in an-the-Emperor-has-no-clothes type comment will note that [in their view] the SDMB is no different than any other MB, favorite drinking hole or other hangout where people congregate to solve all the universe’s riddles.

And that’s my view. However, if any part of the SDMB makes the SDMB look juvenile, banal, sophmoric and just plain silly, it’s The Pit. If I were Ed Zotti (thankfully for all, I’m not) I’d be cringing at the standard fare being served up there, by the hour.

It’s not as if I’m horrified by profanity, or a well placed rant. I remember someone chastising my view, saying the Pit was the place for “well crafted invective.” But I have never seen such a thing. (that I can remember) Every single day there are posts after posts, remarkable only for their indiscriminte use of profanity.(for apparently no purpose than they can)

They’re also remarkable on just how unremarkable they can be. Rants about small, petty garden variety life stuff warrants 5 paragraphs, replete with heavy doses of “fck", "cnt” and other sundry nonsense. Somebody didn’t fill the toner on the copier, someone cut me off in traffic, my boss is a jerk, a clerk at Wendy’s was rude/stupid, the newest video game sucks and on and on and on and on.

It gets so tiring.

Even the truly pitworthy-----Dubyas’ a good example---- is reduced to 'W’s a fing ct motherfu**ng lying babykilling idiot!!! ’

This is “well crafted invective?”

Lastly, I remain puzzled at the mindset that the banner “The BBQ Pit” absolves you from the basic things that make you a part of a civil, intelligent society. You don’t like my views in our discussion in GD, or IMHO? That’s cool. Meander on over to the Pit and call me every filthy name you can think of.

Is that fighting ignorance? Or breeding it?

In a society that increasingly frowns on indicriminate profanity in the workplace, we come here and spew filth at our bosses. (and others, even clerks at stores) Why? I suspect because of the [relative] anonymity. You wouldn’t go to a co-worker and call your [mutual] boss a “c*nt.” You’d be seen as crass, maybe even ignorant or uneducated. Why do it here?

The expected response is, “You don’t have to read it.” That’s a valid point. But I submit that there is a valid general impression that the higher the intellect, the higher the education, the less the indiscriminite use of profanity. IMO, an intelligent person uses profanity discriminately, with precision, and for a pointed effect, not as a blunt instrument or to carpet bomb. But that’s just what is seen daily there.

That’s just my opinion. But I agree that The Pit degrades the overall intellectaul tenor here. There is never a valid reason, in my view, to denigrate another human being because you disagree with them. Often, my general impression of the Pit is that it’s populated with a collection of college kids who still think it’s cool to call someone a “c*nt.”

There is a place for rants, and “well crafted invective.” But not everyone can discern the [less then] subtle differences between invading Iraq and not getting salt packets at the Wendy’s drive through, or how to use the word “f*ck” so as to not bludgeon.

I say: close it down. We’ll all look smarter. Leave the well crafted invectives to the professionals. Not everyone can be a Chapelle or Stewart. Some things just shouldn’t be attempted at home.

Maybe. Maybe not. Of the bannings that I can recall, a number of them either originated in, or were greatly influenced by, the Pit. It’s a very, very noisy place. Tempers flare at the drop of a hat. Name calling and hurtful accusation are the norm. Infantile foul language is so much to be expected that, quite often, people will add a line to their OP, or offer a second post, in order to hurl a gratuitous expletive, thus making it Pitworthy. For me, the argument that the Pit helps sanitize the rest of the board is rather like someone being proud of a bad case of hemorrhoids, and rationalizing that were the sores not there, they might be on his head. Besides, if people are banned just because they cannot be bothered by the rules, then good riddance.

And I believe I have the support of Google, if the banner ads below are any indication…

Agreed. I see the Pitt as a sort garbage pit where occasionally a true gem of a thread surfaces. While rare, the best threads that I have ever seen on the Dope ended up in the PIT. GD is often pedantic and exhausting, GQ sophmoric. Sure youngsters play in the pit and enjoy hurling epithets, and sure the loonies are there to (more often in other forums) but the truely authentic discussions also happen there.

raindog: Did you mean to come off with such an air of superiority? Or was it unintentional? That level of condescension almost deserves a thread…in the Pit.

askeptic said:

No, that was not my meaning, but thanks for asking!

I’m of the persuasion that words have no inherent meaning----none. Meaning is attached by the sender and recipient independently of each other.

From your query, it would appear that you attached both condescencion and an air of superiority to my words. That’s your meaning. That was not my meaning. Now that you’ve asked—and I’ve answered—you are free to revise your meaning (so as to see my point of view(whether you agree or not)) or continue on with your perception/meaning and open your Pit thread. Don’t be offended if I don’t join you there.

I would note however, there is a lot of intellectual real estate between the polar extremes of condescension and calling someone a ‘c*nt.’

It is intellectually inane in my view to equate someone who sees rank, witless, banal, profanity-for-the sake-of-profanity with being ‘uppity.’

There’s nothing wrong with removing someone’s intellectual organs. It’s a great sport. (the aforementioned ‘well crafted invective’) My objection is that the overwhelming amount of posters—and I mean the overwhelming amount—have no clue as to how to do this. It’s clumsy, banal, mean spirited, blunt and juvenile—with very rare and refreshing exceptions.

I mean, look around! Is there some wellspring of well crafted invective I’m missing?

Forgive me…but I only read the last part of your post that was addressed to me.

And there is an intersting irony to it. I agree that some truly great threads have come out of the Pit.

But if the price of finding a diamond on rare occasion is that I must live, in the meantime, in a garbage pit in what way is it condesending if I object to living in these conditions?

Add my voice to those who can’t stand the Pit and the typical threads one finds in it.

Which is exactly why I’m glad we have the Pit.

See, I have very little interest in most Pit threads. I’d rather they not even take up space on my screen. And you know what? They don’t. All I have to do is not open up the BBQ Pit forum. All that invective is there, so it doesn’t have to be anywhere else. And realistically, it’s going to be somewhere. Why not keep it all quarantined, where those who are into that sort of thing can still access it, but those who aren’t don’t have to be bothered with it?