Our state recently started posting names and addresses of sex offenders on the web. Lo and behold, one of them lives right fucking next door to us!! Also, our state has a law stating convicted sex offenders (which this whore is - she assaulted several young boys) can’t live within 500 feet of school grounds. It’s 300 feet from her door to the elementary school down the block.
No one fucking cares. It’s been a month since I reported her, and the fucking police claim they can’t force her to move, even though she’s breaking the law. Worst, they told her I turned her in, and she destroyed my herb garden and broke into our house, stealing my camera, camcorder, and $600 worth of CD’s. The cops refuse to even question her.
I am so fucking pissed off that I have done NOTHING wrong and get treated like shit by the cops, and she gets a free ride.
matt_mcl – oh, okay. I just wasn’t sure. Rather than jumping you (giggle) I thought I’d ask.
tygre – I’m a little confused. If the police didn’t do anything then how did she end up with your name? Did they go over there and talk to her about it or ???
tygre:This may be a stupid question, but how much have you talked to the detective thats working your burglary of a habitation case ? How do you know the cops refuse to question her?
tygre:This may be a stupid question, but how much have you talked to the detective thats working your burglary of a habitation case ? How do you know the cops refuse to question her? **
[/QUOTE]
Because they told us they wouldn’t be questioning her, since we did not actually SEE her breaking in. WTF??
Oh, and the cops admitted she knows it was us who reported her.
byz: when I was on the Grand Jury, we investigated the PD. Most police officers are honest and hard working. But, they are all getting very arrogant, and have a strong “us vs Them” attitude", where anyone who is not a Police officer is a “them”. This attitude is actually encouraged by many PD’s as “a moral and teamwork builder”, however it leads to things like we are seeing down in LA. The problem with this, is despite there are only a few bad cops, all the other “good” cops protect and defend the bad ones. Note that Police are calling the non-police “civilians”, as if the Police were not civilians also. The “Blue wall/line” does NOT protect the good Police, only the bad ones.
a. All people should be polite, including cops. However,
b. Cops have a dangerous job, and when they’re in a process which involves potential danger, including investigating a potential meth lab re-build, or taking down a suspect on someone’s lawn, anybody who’s asking them questions for the sole purpose of being nosy is out of line. You are potentially creating danger for the officers involved.
c. In those cases, it really isn’t any of your concern what they are doing, even if they are on your lawn or at your neighbor’s house. If you want to be nosy, ask them after they’re done or call the police station later.
d. This is just my perspective and obviously shouldn’t be used for public policy, but… If I was involved in a dangerous situation of bringing down a criminal and someone interfered, not just once, but twice after I warned her, then had to be dressed down by my bosses because she made a stink about it, I’d be going out of my way to see that she got tickets as well. Doesn’t make it right I know, but I can sure see the cop’s point of view.
WTF!?!?!? If a mother is concerned about her family she should open her front door and demand and explanation right smack dab in the middle of arrest proceedures??? Hardly. It was a stupid and dangerous thing to do. I can’t even imagine someone being dumb enough to do something like that and then having the gall to call and report the tongue lashing she received. The cops owe her nothing as far as an explanation and yes, they had every right by law to arrest her for obstructing justice if not other charges.
It takes all kinds I guess.
Byz - Obviously the situation wasn’t tense or dangerous if the cops were talking and laughing and more or less just hanging around. The cop was a jerk. You have every right to complain to his supervisors.
My suggestion would be to take quite a few pictures of it, better yet, a video of the occurances, and go down to the station. Ask them about what they are doing in the most polite tone possible. If they say that it isn’t your concern, make sure they know you are a “concerned homeowner.” If they BS you, give the stuff to the local newspaper/news program, and see if they think it is worth investigating.
If that doesn’t work, get a copy of “Spybreak” by Propellerheads and do a little investigating in the house yourself. Put a few CCD cameras around. See what you can find out
What is your fucking problem with me? First you conveniently add the “weapon” to the incident, and then you imply that I am lying about the harassment afterwards?
Your comments are so lacking in merit that I can only assume this is actually some sort of troll for a flame. Or a poke at me.
OK, so now she’s just “running out of (the) house” now?
Read the original post again fuckhead. You can criticize about a lot of things legitimately, but not things you made up to add to my story to make your own point, whatever the hell it may be.
Contrary to popular belief, it is not against the law to ask the police why they are on your property. They are required to tell you why, short of putting the rights of the suspects at risk.
I demand that you explain why twice you added words to my story, and implied that I was lying. Start a new thread if you want to Sparky.
Diane, I’m going to be a little more polite to you.
So your contention is that asking why police are on your property is “interrupting arrrest procedures”?
No, the fact that she had two children in the house and there was a terrible commotion out front led her to ask the nearest public safety officer what was going on. ON HER OWN PROPERTY. She did not have a “weapon” (as said earlier), she did not “run out”, she asked “Excuse me? What’s going on?”
Who said anything about “interrupt(ing) police procedings”? Asking a question is interrupting their procedings? So when the media asks cops questions during an arrest, they are breaking the law?
Folks, this was a QUESTION. “What is going on?” PLEASE Diane, don’t twist it into your own little “another case of a worthless ‘civilian’ interferring with the smiling policeman” type of incident.
Just answer me one question. One simple, elegant question. Is it a crime to ask the police what their business on YOUR OWN PROPERTY IS? Now, I’m not talking about the scenarios that were made up, where my Mom grabbed her gun and ran out at the officers, oh no. And I’m not talking about demanding the criminal record, or SSN of the suspects. Just ask what their business is. That’s all.
Wow - dare to ask a cop why he’s on your property - a Constitutional Right - and you go to jail? Uhhh…any libertarians or lawyers out there at all? Wanna lend me hand on this one?
In short, both your crude comments about the “Darwin Award” and the making up of items to my story are what started what will now be a flame war I am sure. Because both of you were impolite, I will now be impolite. This is very sad. There were much better ways that you could have criticized me, or suggested alternatives.
Una: Don’t you understand? This is the POLICE! They are here for YOU! Do NOT question them. Just do what they say, they know best. They’re not like us, they’re TRAINED! They know better. Let them do their job and leave, do NOT, again, repeat, do NOT bother them about it, they know what they’re doing, and your intervention will ONLY make it worse. They know better. They are better than us. Do NOT think they have to answer to you, or anyone. Sheesh, some people!
–Tim
PS If ANYONE thinks any of this is serious, you must not have ever read a damn thing I’ve written on the subject.
Conceeded: The first post was earnestly rather incoherent.
To recap, the action of running out of your front door durring an arrest seemed like a Darwin-Award type action. I though I made this clear in the second post:
Reread that. If it still does not make sense, well then I have to disagree with you.
The whole mention of weapons was related to other Darwin Award like actions.
I agree, afterwards, you have a reasonable expectation for the most basic information as to what happened.
On the note of the acusation of embelishing or making the story up, I just one would just have to say I do not believe everything that I hear, and this story seems rather unreasonable. But do not let this get yo you, this is all just my own personal opinion, and it is unlikely that either of us will prove either side of this argument.
Agreed. I guess I would ask what part of the country you live in. Here in the great states of Kansas and Missouri, such behavior by police is not only common, but expected. We figured we got off lucky, compared to other things reported in the Kansas City Star re: police atrocities.
And now, for an in-post hijack of my own:
And NO, I don’t hate the police Diane! I know two sheriffs deputies very well, and know there are a lot of great guys out there busting their ass to try and save peoples lives. I have had a few bad experiences with them, which I contend is largely due to the mentality of KC area police. I imagine in a big city like New York or LA, the cops would actually be a much more people-friendly and professional sort.
But cops are not superheroes, they are not gods, and they are not doing their job out of charity - they are fellow citizens who are paid and charged to “protect and serve” the general public. If protecting and serving the general public means playing retribution games on a poor single mother who thought she had been treated badly for no reason, well then we are all in trouble.
I didn’t see anyone else make note - my Mom did not sue, harass, go to the papers, or stage a hunger strike - she followed the department’s own written procedures for making a complaint about officer conduct. And once apologized to by the Sergeant that came out to our house, she dropped the matter completely. This fact cannot be ignored - that she folllowed the department’s own rules, by calling and talking to them, and did not hold any grudge against them.
I’m dropping this now. I can see that obviously the real problem here is me, since my post essentially (inadvertantly, I swear) hijacked Byzantine’s OP, and most people apparantly feel they have no rights when the police are involved. I was trying to make the case by example that officers that show such an open contempt for lowly “civilians” often show their contempt in other ways when their behavior is reported, such as in retribution. For hijacking your post Byzantine, I humbly and sincerely apologize to you.
I don’t think asking the cops what they’re doing on your property is inappropriate, and I think A’s mother did a very understandable thing, even if from our distance it may have been too impulsive. If the cops are still confronting suspects and making an arrest, it makes sense to wait for a more opportune time to ask what’s going on. I have no trouble believing that the cops ordered her into the house for her own safety, even if they were rude about it.
I don’t think your mom should have complained. Look at it from the cops point of view: they risk their lives, struggling to run down some dangerous guy, catch up to him on someone’s lawn and take another bad guy off the streets. Next day, they get called down by superiors because the homeowner complained that they were rude in the process!
NONE of which in any way excuses the complete abuse of police power that the subsequent harassment represents. This is classic police behavior: fuck someone over and count on it to come down to your word against theirs. Lying is just part of the job, apparently, and petty revenge is what tickets are FOR. This is completely irresponsible and those cops should be kicked off the force before they extend this self-serving pettiness to other forms of corruption, if they haven’t already. There is no defending this behavior. It is inexcusable.
Even the slightest understanding of professionalism would have prohibited the stupid and small-minded retaliation you describe (and I have no trouble believing occurred, based on my own experiences). I think your mom goofed in her reactions, but the cops’ behavior is indicative of a much deeper-seated problem.
Byz- be careful. Tickets are the least of the shit cops can do to you, and get perfectly away with. A lot of them are not really much on anyone’s side to begin with, beyond the overt requirements of keeping the job, and if you start videotaping them don’t be surprised if you’re discovered walking down the street with a nickel bag in your pocket (gee, how did that get there?), and then “the suspect resisted arrest”. Remember: There’s no such thing as a truly honest cop. At least not if you think honesty means taking the side of a “civilian” against a fellow cop, even in an obvious case of abuse. At least, I’ve never heard of that happening. The truth can easily be rendered very flexible, especially by the police.
Much better to send an anonymous catalogue of these events to the press. Include a count of all dates, times, vehicles, and license numbers, but don’t let the “patrons” see you collecting this info. Then, next time it happens, make an anonymous call to whoever you sent the letter to telling them this is going on right now. Chances are probably about even that they might send someone around to see what’s up.
I would suspect that the cops had restarted the meth lab, except that if there are ambulances and a state vehicle there as well, it is unlikely. Let us know if you find out.
Last time I came out to see what the lights and siren were, I was roughed up by a cop “For being a threat to him” from across the street. :rolleyes: When I called to report him to the Seargent, I was told he was within his “right” as I was perceived as a “threat”. So, calling IA will do you no good, and it’l land you on “the list”…been there, done that.
So, fuck them. Time I stopped worrying about city-sponsored commotions or that my friend is pulled over in front of my house.
If it interferes with arrest procedures and the cop has already instructed her to go back into her house.
No it is not a crime to ask the police what is going on on YOUR OWN PROPERTY. It IS a crime to:
It doesn’t matter if it is your property or not. When a cop tells you, with obviously a good reason (i.e. in the mist of a multiple arrest) to go back inside your house but you instead stand there and argue because you won’t “be bullied”, then YES, that is called “obstructing justice” and it IS a crime.
Sorry if I appeared rude, it is unintentional. I am merely giving my opinion that although your mom is probably a very nice lady, she could have been arrested (after she “wasn’t going to be bullied”) or may have even put her family into danger.
I remember you saying you were behind the good ol’ Zion Curtain, this wouldn’t have happened to go down in West Valley would it? I’ve had bad experiences with a couple of officers in West Valley where I was getting some information for a ticket and they were totally rude and disrespectful to me, even though I was very polite in approaching them.
It’s somewhat sad that this type of behaviour is tolerated so well. The police should be respectful of those they come into contact with on an ordinary basis. They are supposed to be an example to everyday citizens, but intstead they just come off as arrogant arseholes.
Danielinthewolvesden – (now that you are off the ignore list) I do believe that most officers are just regular people, doing a good job in potentially dangerous situations. I have a lot of respect for them; Goddess knows you couldn’t pay me enough to do that job. I guess, after working with them so closely, I was stung by how rude this man was.
Diane – yes. I went out after the fire truck, the ambulance and the unmarked car had left. The two officers were standing around one of the marked cars. They were laughing and talking. That is when I approached them. If they would have seemed tense or upset or on their way to another call I never would have asked them. I just asked the wrong officer.
Anthracite – don’t sweat it. It belonged here. I think, overall, posters are just concerned that someone could be hurt. I do believe we have a right to know what’s going on (within reason) and I have actually had a little domestic scene play out on my lawn. But I didn’t go out. Everyone was so high strung you could practically smell the adrenaline. I think everyone just saw how dangerous even opening the door could be. In the end, we just want you and everyone else to be careful. Okay?
APB9999 – well, um, thanks. I guess I am just not that paranoid. I’m not going to make a huge deal about this and try to ruin this guys life. Frankly, with his attitude, I’m sure he suffers everyday and that’s enough for me. The forces of the universe will handle this man far better than I ever could.
And let me take this on another turn, if you please. A few posters have talked about the out and out vindictiveness of the police after complaining. I very strongly disagree with this. In 1994 I was involved in a car accident. I hit a woman’s car when she made a left in front of me. Several pedestrians saw the accident and hung around waiting for the police.
When an officer did arrive he greeted the other woman by name! He didn’t bother to take any statements from the pedestrians and basically just took her side of the story. I called IA after this and it was investigated and that woman was cited after the fact.
I have never, to this day, suffered any retribution over turning that man in. I have never been hassled or jerked around by the police department at large. I’m not saying that situations like that don’t happen I’m just trying to point out that it would be nigh on impossible for them to put everybody that complains on some kind of “list” and mercilessly fuck with them.
Just a point of final clarification, which might not have been clear in the first post. Although my Mom did open the door, at no time did she leave the confines of her house. She called out to them from inside her house, out the open door. So now we get into whether the police can force you to close the door on your own house, or can control your speach inside your own property.
Whatever, it is unimportant to me now, because you said the following:
Which helps me to understand where you are coming from, so I don’t wish to argue with you. It appeared at first that my Mom was being mocked, and that really didn’t sit well with me. She is a very safety-conscious person (the 5 mph under the limit type), and would not have knowingly endangered us. The cops IMO could have said a loud and stern “M’am, please stay where you are and close your door! This is a dangerous situation!”. Then, (regardless of how rudely they warned her) come up and just talk to her like a human being after the scene was secured to let her know there was no more danger.
But, it is not important since you have explained your intent to me. I’m truly sorry if I was rude back to you Diane - I posted while upset. Let’s please go back to just being friends now.
