The Problems with Home Schooling your children:

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve read the articles, seen the statistics, and watched 16 year old students enter college who were home schooled. State to state the laws differ, some laws require mom or dad to have a certificate saying they are able to teach their children, some laws make students take tests out of the home, but they can learn at home.
Major opposition groups against home schooling say the biggest problem is the non-socialization of the kids and the lack of diversity between students. Others say the children grow up with a world view matching that of the parent who is teaching them.
Of my own personal experience, when my first student who was homeschooled came into class he was 16 years old. I had had an opportunity to meet with he and his mother on several occasions to prepare him for college life. He seemed confident and we (the college) took special precautions due in no small part to his age. Psychological testing indicated he was an intelligent guy, normal aptitudes for social skills, for all intents and purposes he was fine to enter college. His mother lived 3 hours away in Vermont, and was homeschooling his younger sister and brother by herself. She was a Vermont Certified k-12 educater.

He seemed very well adjusted for the first few weeks. Incoming freshman treated him well, and in class is was average at best. He did not like to raise his hand, and when called upon would usually turn red. This is not in any way indicative of his home schooling, just that he was a shy guy.

Two weeks later he was in my office explaining how he did not think he was fitting in and expressed a desire to go home. Two days later without an arguement, or question his mother came and brought him home. I never saw him again.

In my opinion this is wrong. In my opinion the mother should have encouraged him to stay and tough it out. Then again I may be considered a hard ass for this thinking, but he was completely capable to handle the college situation. I personally think it deliniates several issues with his social skills, the least of which his ability to cope with complex social interaction.

I will concede I think homeschooling for some is ok and in fact recommended. However, there are the Andrea Yates types in our country who tarnish this view, I’ll not generalize here but I will say, home schooling should be regulated beyond the state level. I do not want to cast a dark cloud over HS-ers and I know the
CBS two part series on HSing really made it sound like a torturous endeavor.

Are there dopers who home school?

Who advocates home schooling and why? Any Anecdotes for or against homeschooling?

For those advocates: What is actually done about socialization? And what is done to combat parent centered world views? Is it necessarily a bad thing to have a parent centered world view in your opinion?
My wife and I are wanting to have children with-in the next few years - maybe sooner than later :slight_smile: - and are wondering about all the different educations available out there.

2

Ech. No regulation. The whole point of homeschooling is that parents can choose how to educate their children.

When I started school, I was incredibly cowed by having to learn things at a pace dictated by someone else, and by having to memorise and spit out information even if I didn’t understand what I was doing. I froze up and couldn’t learn anything. My parents pulled me out of school and I was able to learn what I wanted to learn at my speed. By the time I was highschool-age I was nevertheless pretty equal to my age peers academically. I took an aptitude test at seventeen, and while my math skills were a tad behind (grade 10 level), everything else (including vocabulary, reading comprehension, spelling, and science) was post-secondary.

About the kid who quit college: why the hell not? College isn’t for everyone. Why conform? If it doesn’t make you happy, if there are other things you’d rather do with your life or if you aren’t comfortable there, why should you be forced to do what everyone else is doing? I think that’s a strength of homeschoolers: they don’t just automatically take a major step because they think they have to. They decide for themselves what they want to do with their lives. And it’s a strength of many homeschooling parents that they trust their kids’ judgement, take their misgivings seriously, and let them make their own mistakes.

On socialisation: yeah, anyone who didn’t spend his childhood in an undisciplined herd is going to be a bit uncomfortable in a university situation. I don’t think the socialisation that kids get in school is natural or necessarily healthy. They’re forced to be social, they don’t have any privacy or alone-time, and they’re subject to schoolyard power hierarchy. Homeschooled kids have friends (even when I was in school, my best friends were kids I knew from Brownies and other out-of-school activities that I continued as a homeschooler), and they get to explore being social as well as being themselves and being alone.

I can’t stress how freaked out I am by the possibility of regulating homeschooling. That automatically means that a kid who can’t keep up with the ‘normal’ pace of learning is once again slapped with a label of ‘slow’ or ‘disabled’. If I’d stayed in school I would have been labeled as such, and it would have been a tremendous blow to my self-esteem and my dreams. Homeschooling takes away that obstacle; there are kids who find from homeschooling that speed of learning doesn’t matter as much as quality and enthusiasm. Regulation would obliterate that.

3

I have heard good things about it if the parents are genuinely interested in educating their children. However, my cousin was homeschooled for a few years (around middle school to high school) and came out of it with very little motivation. He says he was never really pushed the way they push you in school, so when he went back to a regular school, he was at a loss.

4

I missed ‘parent-centered worldviews’. What does that mean exactly? Having the world revolve around the parents until the kid is older than school age? In school, the world doesn’t evolve around the kid-- it revolves around schedules and activities and grades. I think family is a much more stable and healthy thing for a kid to center on.

Homeschooling comes in many shapes. Some people have school lessons at home, and some people just let their kids run free and have fun (and it turns out that those kids do choose to learn on their own-- that’s how I did it). There are as many ways of doing it as there are families who do it.

If you want to read about the benefits of homeschooling on adult life, I would recommend The Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Llewellyn. It’s aimed at teenagers who find highschool stifling and who want to get out and still follow their dreams and take charge of their own lives, but it delineates a lot of the socialisation problems of school very sharply.

5

GMRyujin: If I’d been pushed, I think I would have had all the enthusiasm burned out of me. Most of the kids I know who graduate from highschool don’t have any love for anything at all. Music and art and science and reading have all become tasks, things that other people make you do as opposed to things you do because you’re interested.

6

I was homeschooled for 5th, 7th, and 8th grades. My father is college-educated with multiple degrees, my mom graduated from high school (she had a college scholarship, she just didn’t want to go).

First, a little background. I went to public schools for grades K-4. In first grade, I was shunted into a “gifted” program mostly because the teacher was impatient with my questions and wanted to get me out of her hair. I went to the “gifted” class one day a week. It probably kept me from going bonkers. I was very scientifically-inclined, had a high-school reading level, and was a favorite target of both students and teachers. There were some good teachers at my school, but I always seemed to end up in the class of the old biddies who hated the “gifted” program because their own kids couldn’t get into it, so they took it out on me.

Fourth grade was the last straw. I was getting verbally abused and unfairly treated by that teacher. We were short on books, so she would give a homework assignment to the class, give me two minutes to copy the questions down, then give the book to another student and make me go home and do them from memory. Any time I made a less-than-perfect grade, she would tell the class, “Don’t feel so bad, SHE made a ____” and sit there and smirk while they laughed at me. My parents complained repeatedly because I was coming home in tears, but the school officials absolutely refused to get involved.

Homeschooling was a last resort. I was supposed to be in what was the best elementary school in the area, but I wasn’t learning anything and was suffering. My parents did a lot of research into it and joined a local support group. We kind of winged it. I was able to help pick out my textbooks, which we either ordered or were able to obtain free from the public schoolbook depository (sometimes we found brand new textbooks that were apparently never used before the school system switched editions). I also chose several workbooks on different subjects that I was interested in.

In Florida (where we lived at the time), the only requirement was that a certified teacher had to review your curriculum once a year. One of the teachers I had for the gifted classes was happy to see me out of the school and did our reviews.

Mom kept a detailed lesson plan, with each day and my assignments. I would get up, check the plans, and do my assignments. Sometimes it took a couple hours, sometimes it took several. If I finished early, sometimes I’d do some extra work. Usually I would do a section from each book, so my workload was typically 30-60 math problems (one or two lessons in Saxon Math texts), sections in history and science and the questions following them, a reading selection and questions, etc. Mom would grade the papers in the afternoon and then I would make necessary corrections if I made mistakes. That way I really learned the material that I didn’t understand the first time around.

The system worked well for us. I was happy and learning. Socialization wasn’t a big issue to me, I wasn’t a really social kid. I hung around with other kids at the support group meetings, but I’d rather be at home with my computer. I was also a Girl Scout during that time.

In sixth grade, I was eligible to go to a science magnet school. Thinking it was a great opportunity, I went. Bad choice. The school only cared about students who were science-fair obsessed. I fell by the wayside once again. On top of that, a group of boys, lead by a school official’s son, decided I was prime harassment material. So did a girl from my scout troop. Between them, I went through three backpacks and too many lunchboxes to count. They’d grab them and beat them against a wall or rip them from my hands. I’d fight back, but I was a scrawy kid. It happened right in front of an administrator, but she would just stand and watch. Again, my parents went to the principal, but he said he couldn’t do a thing. It continued on and on… eventually the official’s kid had to say “I’m sorry” to me, but that was it. I’ve still got scars on my hand from a rock one of them lobbed at me.

Back to homeschooling. I started pre-algebra in the magnet school, so Mom just continued with Saxon Algebra I and II for 7th and 8th grades. We kept to our old system and my younger sister joined up in first grade. She is now in 8th grade and will probably enter a public high school next year (hasn’t been decided yet).

Upon moving to Mississippi, I chose to enroll in a public high school. They had only dealt with a couple of homeschoolers before. The counselors looked at my mom’s records and decided that I had done equivalent work to most of the freshman classes. They were a bit shocked I had taken Algebra I and II at that age, those classes aren’t taught here until high school. I ended up with credit for 6 or 7 classes, enough that I was able to graduate in three years. I found that many of the classes I did have to take overlapped with the things I studied on my own. Frankly, I was bored to death in high school. I graduated valedictorian, 4.0, full college scholarship.

Some people think my parents must be nuts for homeschooling me and my sister. Others argue that they taught me to run away. I don’t think either is true. My parents provided me with a better education than I was getting in public schools. There comes a time when dealing with constant abuse for a subpar education just isn’t worth it anymore. I’m grateful they had the time and money to do it, and I think I’m better for it. I’m now in my third year of college and studying on my own at a young age has helped me immensely while many of my peers have trouble dealing when information isn’t spoonfed to them.

The other big argument is socialization. I never had a problem with it. I had the support group and the scouts. That was more than enough for me. At school, the only kind of socialization I was getting was the kind that involves insults and punches. Most homeschoolers go out of their way to ensure that their children spend time around other kids.

That was probably WAY more than you wanted to know, but I hope it helped some. Feel free to ask me anything else if you want.

7

I am a product of both public school (K and grades 9-12) and Catholic school (grades 1-8). I have only incomplete anecdoctal evidence against home schooling. My information concerns my sister in law, who I’ll call “N”, who is home schooling her two daughters, who are ages 5 and 6.

N is a wonderful mother, has a bachelor’s degree in occupational therapy, and is very conscientious about home schooling. The problem is that N is also very stubborn and prideful, and as a result she has not taken steps to deal with what even I can see as an impending problem, namely, that both her children speak with very heavy lisps. N doesn’t speak with a lisp, and neither does her husband, but both little girls do.

In my opinion, and I am just an uncle, the children should be taken to a speach therapist for some sessions, but N won’t hear of it. She thinks she’s doing a wonderful job home schooling the kids and doesn’t need any help, and that the speach thing is something the girls will grow out of, thank you very much. I’m pretty sure that if the girls were in school the teacher would recommend a speach therapist for them.

As far as I can see - which I’ll admit isn’t too far - the girls are learning the school materials very well, but they need to have their speech corrected.

Having said that, I guess I’d say that home schooling is all right, but the home school teacher must be able and willing to go outside for help if it becomes necessary to do so.

8

**Indefatigable
[/quote]

  • Allow me to explain and clear up some things that maybe go a tad misconstrued in my OP.

College is not for anyone. But how are you going to learn what is or isn’t good for you if your parent is simply going to bail you out whenever you ask for it. Why couldn’t mom in this situation say, “…just tough it out till thanks giving…a few more weeks, and see how you are then…”
This way the kid would have to tough it out a little, and maybe find something he is really interested in. A club maybe…a girl…who knows! Life is not carefree. Sorry folks, it’s just not. You have the right ans choice to do anything you want, this is true. But in the real world, one must always work for what they have. Give an example of not having to work for what yuo have as an adult and I’ll listen.

It does not mean what you think it means. Simply put, it means the child adopts the parents view of and attitudes of the world around them. At least when in school they have valuable time away from a parent to become an individual, someone who thinks and learns on their own. What to the vast majority of the populace do when confronted with adversity? Say, " Oh F-this I don’t want to deal…I’m simply not going to do it…"

No, they get through it with time like everyone else.

I am not condemning homeschoolers. I am saying that if you want to home schoo your children, why not have a class you must take and pass to get certified to do so? Any adult can follow a manual. Not every adult is fit to teach though. Some parents are afraid to let go of their children…afraid for them, afraid they will get hurt by society. So why not keep them home and teach them yourself? There is a huge new movement doing just this. And for a majority of them, it is a very good thing. Why in my neighborhood alone there are a group of folk who are home schooling their children. They move from home to home to learn different things from different parents who have specialized in a certain subject. I’ve offered to conduct testing on any of the group when the time comes, or to act a liason for getting the state tests they will need. I went to highschool with one of the parents, and they are open to my offers.

Again I am not condemning homeschooling, I am simply saying the the motives should be evaluated, and not just off the cuff.

9

There are some home-schooled kids in my neighborhood. We’ve gathered that the parents have religious objections to public school. (A lot of other people around here have objections to the local public schools on the grounds that they’re crap, and a lot of people (like us) send their kids to charter schools.) These kids are totally unsocialized, and they act like wild animals! When they have come over to play with our kids, we have had to tell them things like “Do not climb on our furniture”, “Do not climb on top of our shed” and “Do not dig in our yard”. It’s unbeleiveable. They have no idea how to play with other kids, and end up pushing other kids away with their behavior. These kids are never going to be able to function in society.

10

Well Minniepurl - Some of the things you have said are a generalizing to the children…but dealing with crappy public education can and is dealt with in productive ways…like you said charter schools are wonderful for children.

Oh and my above statement

obviously should read - College is not for EVERYone.

Even with all the adversity towards homeschooling, I do not believe it is a copout for parents, like some people believe it is.
Minniepurl brings up a great point where if you don’t like public education where you live, then get your child into a charter or magnet school.

11

Phlosphr,

I’m also interested in this subject because the schools around here are crap. They teach nothing but MCAS material and the ‘No Child Left Behind’ thing hinders more than it helps. Thusly I am considering home schooling or montessori schools. So far though the only Montessori or other private schools I’ve found are religiously affiliated.

Also, for the 16 year old in the OP. I know other kids who were not home schooled who were coddled by their parents. My Godmother’s son had her doing his papers and projects for him even in college. Some parents just can’t let their kids grow up and that does neither parent nor child any favors :(.

12

Mr. Kitty’s kids were “homeschooled” for several years… his daughter decided that she wanted to be homeschooled after she was faced with repeating seventh grade (she was a smart girl, just prone to lack of motivation), and his son decided that if his sister got to stay home, damned if he wasn’t going to be in on it too. The ex worked full time so the kids were responsible for doing whatever work needed to be done. After about a year the daughter got a full-time babysitting job for a local family (7AM-6pm every day, and she would often bring one or more of the kids home with her), which left the son home by himself, and it wasn’t odd to call at around 2-3 in the afternoon to find him still asleep. The whole thing had been done without Mr. Kitty’s input or approval (he didn’t find out that his son was out of school until about 2 months after it happened), but when he found out he insisted the kids both go to therapy to make sure that there weren’t any underlying issues. Never happened, thanks to the ex.

End result: the daughter went from being popular and smart with dreams of being a lawyer to not finishing the HS program, getting her GED, getting married at 17 and will be having her first baby any day now at age 18. The son went back to public school last year, will graduate a year early, and has already enlisted in the Marines.

::shrug:: I’m not against HS, I’m against unregulated HS when a parent is not involved in the process.

13

Socialization?

Our city has an orchestra made up solely of homeschooled kids. Some of the museums and other cultural centers offer special programs for homeschooled kids to attend. And many parents, on their own, seek out group activities for with other homeschooling families. Socialization is possible, and even common in some places.

Wow, bobkitty, Mr Bobkitty’s ex sounded like instead of providing homeschooling, she authorized her kids to drop out. Way to go, Mom! In our state, I don’t think a parent could be so hands-off and get away with it. Homeschooling here has a modicum of regulation.

14

Actually, Cranky, from what I was told this past semester, Michigan is now one of the most relaxed states with HS regulation. According to my ED prof, it was pretty much deregulated under Former Governer Fat Bast… er… Engler… ahem. Evidence I have seen of this comes in the form of a coworker who homeschools her son with no regulation from the state.

15

IMHO, the 16-year-old in the OP was still a child, even though he was in college. So…I’m willing to cut him more slack than if he was older.

I think if I had a child (and the time), I would consider home-schooling. It would be fun to think of new things to introduce them to, and I wouldn’t have to worry about someone dishing out wrong information.

But overall, I had a pretty positive public school experience. There are so good intangibles that comes with formal-setting education that cannot be replicated at home. Plus, I think kids need to spend time away from their parents sometimes. Going to school provides this freedom.

16

*But how are you going to learn what is or isn’t good for you if your parent is simply going to bail you out whenever you ask for it. *

I’d think that a kid old enough to be going to university will be old enough to make these decisions himself. Sixteen or not, it sounded like he made the decision and his mother respected it, as opposed to him being ‘bailed out’ by his mother.

I think kids need to spend time away from their parents sometimes. Going to school provides this freedom.

Homeschoolers have other friends and other places that they go. They don’t just stay at home. One of the best things I got out of it was being able to socialise with adults and younger kids instead of just people my own age. Maybe the toss-up is between spending too much time with your parents and spending too much time with age peers.

*We’ve gathered that the parents have religious objections to public school. *

Ergh. I’ve had problems with those types myself. I know a number of kids who are out of school for religious reasons, and only a few of them are what I’d call well-adjusted. I think the problem is that parents who take kids out of school for that reason are too intent on ‘sheltering’ their kids, and those kids end up with no social skills or ability to deal with other people besides their own family.

I was taken out largely because of bullying issues. I was harassed and sometimes beaten by other kids, without any adult stepping in to stop it. As a homeschooler, when I was around other kids and there was an altercation, there were parents around to make sure we dealt with it in a civil manner and that the perpetrator didn’t get off scot-free. We learned to deal with mean people in a mature way that’s useful in the real world, instead of (a) bowing down to the authority of a brute or (b) becoming a bigger bully to avoid getting hurt.

17

I agree with this statement…I think the problem in some home school environs is that the parents can not handle away time from their children.

18

Indefatigable - I understand there are varying degrees of home schooling. It sounds like you had one of the more ‘open’ experiences. I see that you recognize what happens to sheltered children in home school environments…That is a good thing.
Cranky said:

Possible, yes it is, and happens often. But I am not 100% convinced that socialization at good levels takes the majority in most homeschooling situations in ths country. I have not a cite back that, it is pure inference from my experiences.

19

Phlopshr: I’m just not convinced that good socialisation happens in the majority of schools. :smiley:

You don’t have kids yet, but you’re trying to do the best for them when you do. If you have no objections to starting them in school, do it, and if there are problems then find an alternative. If they have friends there and there aren’t problems, great. It’s the most hassle-free choice, usually.

20

Oh, I get that attitude and totally understand, but I was just sharing his experience. His parents didn’t have any kind of teaching experience, I think his mom had gone to college, but that was about it. He went to school for a while, then was homeschooled for a few years, then had to go back to school when his parents divorced. So he went from being able to turn in the little bit of work they assigned him whenever to having deadlines and stuff again and it was really hard for him.

As for me, if I have kids, I’m not sending them into the public schools with Zero Tolerance and nothing but standardized testing and the insanity that is school in the U.S. anymore. I thought high school was bad when I was in it, but the stuff I hear gives me the willies. I don’t want my kid marching through metal detectors with a name badge on, liable to be expelled if he brings in a Tylenol, unable to fight back if he’s attacked, etc.