Amarinth, you are probably right. I am not sure how many get it today. Most seem to want to change it rather than understand it.
We judge and condemn each other so much, and it has become such a normal thing in our society, that we can’t understand the absence of such behaviour. But it is true God loves us unconditionally despite ourselves.
Love
Leroy
A search of the gospels will show that these people were not “rocket scientists”. In fact, I’ve read statements lamenting the fact that Jesus was surrounded by such a group of “ignorant oafs”.
I don’t completely agree with that, but surely they were mostly uneducated and limited in experience.
This thread has opened my eyes to the possibility that the older son represents those that want Hell to exist, so that there is a way of making a distinction between those that have strayed and those that have seen the light. If there is such a distinction, it certainly need not be “eternal”.
Parable The First-This one’s for Freyr.
There came a day when Thor, the Thunderer, did look about golden Asgard and find nought that interested or amused him. He went out of Bilskirnir, his hall in that part of Asgard known as Thrudheim. Thor journeyed to the realm of the All Father, the Rune Maker, Odin. Thor came at last into the hall Valaskialf, where Odin sat upon the all-seeing throne Hlidskialf.
“My son,” spake Odin “Blood of my blood and flesh of my flesh, I have watched as thou didst come unto me. Wherefore this troubled expression on thy brow?”
“Father, yea thou this realm is golden I grow weary of it. I crave this boon: that thou should give me mine inheritance that I might wander upon Midgard.”
“But, my son, thou hast duties here. It is thine appointed task to defend Asgard from the giants of fire and of frost, and to slay any troll who dares approach.”
“Such combat no longer holds delight for me. Give me of thy wealth that I might away.”
And Odin called his servants and told them what must be done. Thor left, carrying huge sacks of wealth.
He came to the bridge Bifrost. There stood Thor's brother, Heimdall the Horn Blower. Heimdall was gifted with eyes that could track a gnat though it be leagues away and hidden in fog. His ears could hear the very grass grow. So, Thor spake not of what had transpired. For Heimdall had heard all. Heimdall watched as his brother descended the bridge. Heimdall had watched for ages-never complaining or failing in his duty. Nor did he complain now.
In Midgard, Thor did gold in taverns and his lust between the thighs of whores. Much time passed and Thor began to pine for Asgard. He came to see that he broken trust with his father and his brother. He was sore ashamed then. With heavy heart did he climb back to the golden realm.
Then did Odin call the Aesir and the Vanir to a gathering. There before all did Thor apologize to his father saying that he knew he had forever lost Odin's love. Yet pleased would he be if only Odin would allow him to remain, that he might fulfill the duty he had cast away. At this, Odin sayeth
“Thou art forgiven. From my throne, I can see without end. The boar Saehrimnir rises anew each day and provides meat without end. The mead that drips from the horns of the goat Heidrun flows without end.Call Andhrimnir and tell him to again slay the boar Saehrimnir. Send for the goat Heidrun that we might drink of its mead.Thou art my son, flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood. I forgive thee and love thee as always. For my love for thee is also without end. The instant I saw that thou were returning to Asgard did I forgive thee. Even Loki, the Strife Bringer, would I forgive if he would but ask it.”
Then did Heimdall speak. "Thor, thou hast taken thine inheritance from our father's trove. Now, he hast accepted you again to hi bosom. He wilt divide his wealth anew. Thus shall I receive less gold than is mine by right. Yet, I care not. I would trade all mine inheritance for the return of my brother."
At this, Odin did smile.
“I am well pleased with my sons this eve. Yet, Heimdall has spoken in error. For mine ring, Draupnir, does make nine twins to itself each night. Thus, my wealth is also without end. Heimdall, thy brother’s lesson has cost thee nothing.”
Hokay-
One day, Solomon came upon a man weeping outside the Temple.
"Why dost thou cry so? And why dost thou lament here rather than entering the Temple and giving the woes to the Lord?"
"I weep because in my arrogance, I had turned away from G-d. I would pray to Him now. But His ears are shut to me. How can I gain the Lord's forgiveness?"
Solomon brought forth from his robes, a skin of wine and a knife. “This skin is what G-d did give you. The wine it is filled with is His love. But in thy wickedness, thou hast destroyed Hs gift and lost His love.” Here did the king rend the skin again and again, spilling wine upon the ground.
“But there is a way to atone for your sins and return to the house of the Lord.”
The man's eyes gleamed now, not only with tears but with hope as well.
"How? What must I do?"
Solomon gave the torn and empty skin to the man.
“Merely fill this skin with water and He shall grant thee His forgiveness.”
At this, the man wailed anew.
"This bag could not hold even cheese! Never shall I fill it with water! I am lost!"
Solomon told the man to be unafraid. He bid him to rise and walk with him to the river Jordan.
"Behold! A miracle!" cried Solomon.
He then held the skin beneath the waters.
“Do you see? Though the skin is torn with great holes, it is filled with water. The water fills it and surrounds it. So long as the Jordan doth flow, this skin shall never be empty. So long as it is kept in the water, shall it never be empty. It is such with the love and mercy of the G-d of Israel. They flow always, without limit. And no matter how much of them you drink, always shall there be enough for all others. Walk away from him, and thou shall seem empty. But, merely open thyself to him and his love and mercy shall fill you no matter what you have done.”
Uh Doc, I thought you said it was the wine that was filled with His love.If the skin is constantly filled with water, it will never hold wine again. That would be eternal damnation wouldn’t it? " Poorly chosen example" I’d say 
**Solomon gave the torn and empty skin to the man.
“Merely fill this skin with water and He shall grant thee His forgiveness.”
**
I didn’t even get one comment per parable.
I feel cheated. I demand feedback.
OK, Doc.
Parable #1: Your audience was Freyr. So, not a bad way to make the point, if the point is that God/Odin rewards all lesser deities equally. From the -admittedly little- I know of Norse mythology this does not exactly extend to all humanity. Also, it doesn’t appear that Heimdall really cares whether Thor’s return has come at a future personal cost to him, which makes the fact that it did not a mere minor denoument rather than a revelation. You’ve created a story illustrative of Odin’s patience and forgiveness, but said very little about humility or inclusion.
Parable #2: This one seems to be targeted at contrite sinners, rather than the holier-than-thou crowd. Or, at least, there’s no representative in the story to receive Solomon’s lesson that “no matter how much of them you drink, always shall there be enough for all others.” The abashed man is merely seeking a return to God. Does such contrition need further instruction? (The real protagonist in the Prodigal Son parable is not the titular character.)
I hate “me too” posts – but, Doc, what Xenophon said goes for me as well.
The point of the Prodigal Son story, read in the context Jesus told it, is not that the prodigal came home contrite and was forgiven, but that the “good boy” brother was begrudging of the father’s forgiveness to his brother. One comment I remember from an otherwise forgettable sermon on this text was: “There were two prodigal brothers; one threw away his inheritance, the other was ready to throw away his brother.” (I assume you can see clearly the application to the holiness/separatist Protestant beliefs and the we’re-the-one-true-church Catholics today.)
There are some good lessons in your parables, but not the specific one that Jesus tailored the Prodigal for.
So the main point of the prodigal son isn’t that G-d forgives all, but that we should as well?
Hmm, then it seems I and several other posters have misunderstood it entirely.
But, I believe your interpretation is correct because the story makes a lot more sense when read that way.
The good son isn’t told his brother has returned because, for the good son he hasn’t. GS hasn’t forgiven his brother. Until GS stops thinking of his brother as ‘that money wasting moron’ or ‘the inheritance thief’, and sees him as ‘my brother whom I love’, he can’t welcome his brother back into his life.
Dad’s line about the party not costing GS any oxen or wine isn’t an assurance. It’s pity-‘your brother has come home and you’re more concerned with losing material goods? To you losing gold is worse than losing your brother?’
The prodigal has sinned, but he has repented and asked forgiveness. The ‘good’ son has sinned. But he has not repented, not asked forgiveness, and not granted forgiveness either.
So the moral of the parable of the prodigal is not, in the words of Martin Luther, “For there is no sin so great that it can carry you outside the realm of G-d’s mercy.”
The moral is
“Forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us.”
Now that would have made a much better parable…
Reinterpreting the Bible is a national pasttime, the fundamentals do it, and the liberals do it, and the atheists do it. Join in the fun, let’s just make it say what we want it to.
The Bible would not be so reinterpreted time after time if it were just an ordinary writing, but we have been told it is the work of God’s hand, etc. God must be put into the belief system that works best for each of us. So we must each “make” our own God out of the Bible.
As long as we try to “force” some picture of God out of the Bible or any other text, we will not know Him. God is within us, and all things, just relax and observe, like Santa Claus, He is everywhere, everywhere.
Love
Leroy
In the words of a learned Catholic friend:
BINGO!
For your reading pleasureL http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11160&highlight=prodigal
Sorry, I’ve been away from my computer a few days, house-sitting and didn’t have a chance to catch up on the Dope.
Wow, Doc, that’s great and all. You certainly got the names down right, but some of the appellations are wrong; Odin isn’t the rune maker but the rune discoverer. Otherwise, you certainly got the feel of Snorri’s writing style.
I’m not exactly sure what you were trying to accomplish here, tho. Are you attempting to tell the tale within the context of Norse saga and show that the same moral applies within Norse paganism (both new and antique)?
Unfortunately, the whole concept of forgiveness (at least when viewed in the same context as Christianity) doesn’t exist in either Neopaganism philosophy nor in Antique Pagan thought.
Let me clarify; the idea that we need to be forgiven because of our inheirent sinful nature is not part of Neopagan or Antique Pagan thought. If you can pull up a cite for it, I’d love to see it.
There is no “original sin” nor a need to be “saved” from it or “forgiven” in the Christian context of those words. Certainly humans do silly, stupid things. When that happens, we try to learn from it and correct it as best as possible. I certainly believe that the Gods forgive humans for their foibles. But there’s no need to be forgiven simply because we’re inheirently sinful.
**
I was under the impression he hung upside down for 9 days and nights from Ygdrasil to gain wisdom. Once down, Odin proceeded to carve the runes.
I was trying to provide a parable rectifying the good son being a jerk and perceived injustice to the good son.
Being Jewish, I don’t believe in original sin either. Thor is forgiven only for his sins(given my understanding of Norse/Teutonic myth and culture breaking an important promise, and abandoning your family, clan, and father are rather big sins). Heimdall avoids the sin of the good son. He forgives his (technically half brother. As Heimdall’s mothers were the 9 wave maidens) brother and declares that having his brother back is more important to him than any perceived favoritism or loss of inheritance (Thanks for not pointing that out BTW. I’m well aware that at Ragnarok, Odin will be devoured by a wolf, Thor will drown in Jurmundgander’s venom, and IIRC Heimdall will also perish).
PolyCarp- It’s too bad Zev or Chaim isn’t here. I know that at least one of the big name scholars of Judaism taught ‘In order to be forgiven for your sins, you must ask forgiveness of those you have wronged, and grant forgiveness to those who have wronged you.’
You’ve got to admit that only on this board could the exegesis of a parable of Jesus have a hijack into literary criticism of the stylistics of Eddaic prose! 
Yeah, I’m aware that it was by no means original with Jesus – that’s one reason why Christians honor the O.T. (Law and the Prophets – and the writings) alongside the New – because our contention is that Jesus in His life and teachings fulfilled the will of the God who had, after all, inspired the composition of the L., P. & W.
I suspect Hillel, as a lot of Jesus’s teachings reflect an intimate knowledge of Hillel’s, though Akiva sticks in my mind. I admit to not being as familiar as I ought to be with most of the Jewish scholars of the Law.
More importantly he didn’t realize that he had anything to repent for.
Many years ago I was watching an episode of “Saint Elsewhere” and began daydreaming. When the program came back to my attention, there were 2 men, each in a rowboat that was floating around in a small pond. A sand dessert surrounded the pond and there was a bright light shining over the horizon. They were complaining about not being allowed to enter Heaven (the bright light). In their minds there was no doubt that it was a mistake or an injustice because there were people who had sinned worse than they had, who were allowed to enter, etc., etc. Meanwhile they floated aimlessly around the pond.
Although, I have no idea of what relevance that scene had to the show, it made a real impression on me as the one possible reason for Hell (the pond) to exist. If you cannot recognize your sins and blame others or the system for everything then you have learned nothing and cannot enter.
Obviously, this is the case with the older son and the lesson is not to let our egos lead us down the same path (to that pond).
Thanks Polycarp for enabling me to see this connection between two seemingly unrelated stories.
[sup]Or should I say myths?[/sup]
**DocCathode wrote:
I was under the impression he hung upside down for 9 days and nights from Ygdrasil to gain wisdom. Once down, Odin proceeded to carve the runes.**
True enough, as far as it goes. Here’s the verse from Lee Hollander’s translation:
I wot that I hung on the wind tossed tree
all of nine nights,
wounded by spear, bespoken to Othin
bespoken myself to myself,
[upon that tree of which none telleth
from what roots it doth rise]
Neither horn they upheld nor handed me bread
I looked below me–
aloud I cried–
caught up the runes, caught them up wailing,
thence to the ground I fell again.
(from the “Sayings of Har”)
This is basically a shamanistic rite, where Odin underwent the ordeal to gain the understanding of the runes. He also gained something, specifically wisdom, by sacrificing one eye to the Well of the Norns, the one with Mimir’s head in it.
**I was trying to provide a parable rectifying the good son being a jerk and perceived injustice to the good son.
Being Jewish, I don’t believe in original sin either. Thor is forgiven only for his sins(given my understanding of Norse/Teutonic myth and culture breaking an important promise, and abandoning your family, clan, and father are rather big sins). Heimdall avoids the sin of the good son. He forgives his (technically half brother. As Heimdall’s mothers were the 9 wave maidens) brother and declares that having his brother back is more important to him than any perceived favoritism or loss of inheritance (Thanks for not pointing that out BTW. I’m well aware that at Ragnarok, Odin will be devoured by a wolf, Thor will drown in Jurmundgander’s venom, and IIRC Heimdall will also perish).**
Well, I’d argue about the concept of sin being equal in the Judaeic and Pagan systems. Sin, as I understand it for Judeaism is going against God’s laws. I don’t think the same could be said for either antique or modern Paganism. Can you provide a cite for that?
The point I’m arguing here is; would the Antique Pagans view the parable of the Prodigal Son in the same light as Jews/Christians of the 1st centurey, CE? I’m inclined to say “no” but I’m not certain on the point.
FYI, at Ragnarok, Heimdall and Loki face off and end up killing each other.
**Polycarp wrote:
You’ve got to admit that only on this board could the exegesis of a parable of Jesus have a hijack into literary criticism of the stylistics of Eddaic prose!**
Thank you! We aim to please!